00:43:08 <sarang> I'm curious to know what the relative speedups are in Halo 2 with the move to PLONK internally...
03:14:59 <needmoney90> Halo 2? Really?
03:15:05 <needmoney90> For some reason that sounds familiar...
06:11:23 <Inge-> sarang: https://cryptobriefing.com/ciphertraces-monero-tracking-tool-isnt-effective-researcher-says/
06:11:26 <Inge-> Looks like they updated it
13:44:12 <sarang> Inge-: nice!
14:54:52 <sarang> I have some logistical news to share; I won't be applying for community research funding for next quarter
14:55:05 <sarang> I've been feeling major burnout for a while, and need to step back
14:56:15 <moneromooo> Well deserved break.
14:57:46 <sethsimmons> Enjoy it, man, you have more than earned it!
14:57:53 <sarang> Anyway, I'll of course continue research for this month, as planned
14:57:57 <sethsimmons> Thank you for all your hard work in so many areas of the projcet.
14:58:05 <sarang> Much appreciated
14:58:45 <sarang> Fortunately, the big-ticket items (CLSAG, Triptych, Arcturus, etc.) are in good shape
14:59:01 <sarang> and BP+ should be finished before then too, barring any complications
14:59:42 <sarang> This could be a great opportunity for other interested researchers to step up if they wish
15:08:52 <midipoet> are you definitely coming back?
15:10:30 <sarang> I'm not sure what the long-term plans will be
16:35:25 <selsta> enjoy your time sarang :)
16:48:40 <suraeNoether> yes, it's a well-deserved break and we wish you well, brother
16:55:33 <sarang> suraeNoether: are you in #noncesense-research-lab?
16:55:42 <sarang> I have questions on the quantum paper you co-wrote
16:57:32 <suraeNoether> switching over
17:10:16 <kinghat[m]> 😢
17:10:23 <kinghat[m]> suraeNoether: coming back?
17:16:51 <suraeNoether> suraeNoether: I am making an announcement about that on monday
17:17:02 <suraeNoether> but since you've asked, I don't see a reason to keep it secret
17:17:44 <suraeNoether> for personal health reasons, i need to take a more traditional industry job for awhile; I'm accepting a position with Insight (who Isthmus works for, btw)
17:18:00 <suraeNoether> I still plan on contributing to MRL, but I'm not going to be asking anyone for a salary any time soon
17:19:11 <suraeNoether> I've very much loved working for Monero, but I'm a very different person this year compared to when I ran the Konferenco last year because of some personal health reasons, and I've found my priorities and appetite for risk has changed
17:20:16 <suraeNoether> For conflict of interest reasons, it's important that folks at MRL know that I'm working for Insight starting September 14th (aside from my contributions to this quantum paper)
17:20:53 <suraeNoether> we like transparency here at MRL :D
17:32:20 <kinghat[m]> suraeNoether: appreciate the update and wish you guys all the health 🙏
17:32:55 <sarang> Thanks kinghat[m]
17:33:25 <sarang> The burnout is pretty bad, so I think this will be important for me
17:33:51 <sarang> Fortunately there a lot of great research contributors :)
17:35:47 <kinghat[m]> the crypto reporters are going to have fun with this i think. "Entire Moreno Research Team Out As Flaws Found, Chain Unravels!"
17:35:59 <sarang> :(
17:36:10 <sarang> This wasn't a result of that press release
17:36:16 <sarang> I've felt burnout for a while
17:36:36 <suraeNoether> yep, and i had surgery about a month ago that i'm still recovering from. this has been in the works for a nontrivial amount of time.
17:36:42 <kinghat[m]> oh i know
17:37:03 <kinghat[m]> i realize the industry can be taxing too
17:37:04 <suraeNoether> i'll still be contributing, so will isthmus presumably. i'm still assisting clemson university with their creative inquiry project into monero.
17:37:07 <ErCiccione[m]> Have some deserved rest sarang, hope to see you back :)
17:37:19 <sarang> Thanks ErCiccione[m], much appreciated
17:37:21 <suraeNoether> i'm just not asking for salaries from you guys anymore, and i'm spending a more healthy amount of time on monero
17:37:28 <ErCiccione[m]> and good luck to you suraeNoether, happy to see you around lately
17:37:34 <suraeNoether> thanks ErCiccione[m]
17:37:57 <suraeNoether> i still pronounce your name with hard Cs in my head like a weird nonsense italian name
17:38:12 <suraeNoether> "ehr-kee-kee-yo-nay"
17:38:30 <sarang> ErCiccione[m]: how should your IRC name be pronounced?
17:38:52 <ErCiccione[m]> It's always fun to hear people pronunciate it in weird ways :P
17:38:53 * moneromooo puts a chip on "err see tshio nay"
17:39:13 <suraeNoether> hehhe
17:39:13 <ErCiccione[m]> that's closer :D
17:39:16 <moneromooo> or tsio
17:39:30 <sarang> I had assumed it was something like "air-chee-chee-oh-nay"
17:39:52 <suraeNoether> wow, i'm somewhat surprised at the convergence of pronounciations
17:40:00 <suraeNoether> that's impressive
17:40:27 <suraeNoether> i knew a guy who pronounced "caveat" as "kuh-veet"
17:40:27 <ErCiccione[m]> hehe wow. Curious to see you all have it in mind in different ways
17:40:50 <ErCiccione[m]> it's "air chee cho nay"
17:41:03 <sarang> Ooh, I was close!
17:41:05 <sarang> Super close!
17:41:17 <suraeNoether> this could be a whole monero coffee chat
17:41:20 * sarang wins, maybe
17:41:22 <moneromooo> sarang king of the MRL
17:41:32 <suraeNoether> "so how did *you* first pronounce sarang in your head?"
17:41:35 <ErCiccione[m]> https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=it&tl=en&text=erciccione
17:41:47 <ErCiccione[m]> play the audio. Google says it perfectly
17:43:14 <ErCiccione[m]> "Sarang" always gave me an asian vibe
17:45:36 <sarang> Conclusion from #noncesense-research-lab talk: a practical quantum adversary would be very annoying
17:54:24 <Isthmus> I thought a fun activity for Konferenco would be to have a list of handles and [separately] record each participant trying to pronounce each others' IRC usernames
17:55:16 <sarang> o_0
17:55:29 <sarang> You cheated Isthmus, with all those consonants in a row...
18:25:27 <suraeNoether> i'll take "thankfulForToday for 100. i'll take charuto for 500. i'll take sarang for 1000"
18:25:37 <vikrants> Is Zcash raiding the MRL?
18:25:49 <vikrants> taking Monero's PhDs ?
18:25:54 <vikrants> :)
18:25:58 <sarang> Nooooo
18:26:03 <suraeNoether> is it true
18:26:54 <sarang> ?
18:27:18 <vikrants> Its Verge.. isn't it.
18:27:25 <sarang> I'm not going to work for another crypto project, no
18:27:34 <sarang> I don't think that would be good for burnout =p
18:28:07 <suraeNoether> sarang: "is it true" is just an old silly monero meme
18:28:27 <vikrants> With this Covid.. I think we are all burned out.. always attached to our devices.  always trying to be productive.
18:28:34 <suraeNoether> and like jokes, the best memes are ones that need to be explained
18:28:48 <vikrants> Sorry Surae.. I did not know it.
18:29:10 <sarang> https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/70298014/do-you-get-it-do-you-get-the-joke.jpg
18:29:20 <suraeNoether> vikrants: obscure 2015 reference. :P
18:31:27 <vikrants> I see
19:30:49 <knaccc> suraeNoether hope you get better from your surgery and things work out for you
19:36:46 <suraeNoether> knaccc thanks
19:42:34 <sarang> Hmm so I was doing some more work on BP+ and realized something about data embedding
19:42:52 <sarang> With BP, I have example code right now that can embed 32 bytes of secret data into existing proofs
19:43:03 <sarang> and in fact, this can be extended to 64 bytes; I'm adding that now
19:43:12 <sarang> With BP+, I think we could only embed 32 bytes of secret data
19:43:46 <sarang> So if there were future applications that would use data embedding (nothing does right now by default, but certainly could be... that's the point!), that would be a small limitation
19:44:26 <sarang> Notably, I think the BP+ embedding a bit trickier, since to unwind it the verifier would need to pull some extra algebra that isn't necessary for BP
19:45:08 <sarang> This wouldn't affect verification times, since only the designated recipient knows the seed value used to recover the embedded data (via PRNG seeding)
19:54:40 <suraeNoether> 64 would be enough to embed a secret el gamal ciphertext
19:57:39 <sarang> Note that the hidden data is per proof, not per output (since outputs are aggregated into a single proof within a transaction)
19:58:35 <sarang> The idea is that the sender and recipient use the same hidden data as a hash function seed, and use that to generate some proof elements in a way that's still uniformly distributed but hides the desired data
19:58:48 <sarang> External verifiers proceed as normal
20:00:09 <sarang> My existing Python code had 32 bytes hidden, but I'm updating to 64 bytes
20:00:20 <sarang> Boo, the tests fail
20:06:59 <sarang> What the heckin heck... this should be working
20:07:23 <moneromooo> - every programmer all the time
20:07:47 <moneromooo> (and the day after, it gets replaced by "how the heckin heck did it ever work"...
20:08:49 <hyc> lol
20:10:34 <caos> Are any  new news from ciphertrace?
20:11:42 <sarang> sgp_ had contacted their CEO a few days ago
20:11:52 <sarang> So sgp_ would be the one to know if the CEO responded
20:16:23 <hyc> juding from what we've seen so far, would be better if someone other than the CEO responds...
20:17:43 <sarang> Eh, they have no obligation to respond, just like they didn't have to do that interview
20:18:12 <sarang> The questions were also very specific about methods, and they may not wish to divulge the answers
20:19:17 <hyc> pretty apparent they don't wish to divulge much of anything, they only wish to get their name onto headlines and in front of peoples' faces
20:19:37 <sarang> I still appreciate that Dave agreed to the interview at all
20:19:59 <sarang> Sure, there may have been business incentives to do it, but we learned a few things at least
20:35:47 <sarang> Ahh figured out the embedding problem
20:35:54 <sarang> Only works for single-output proofs, boo
20:35:57 <sarang> Oh well
20:44:11 <charuto> suraeNoether: wait what do i have to do with tft and sarang?
20:46:41 <sarang> I think suraeNoether was making a joke IIRC
21:16:37 <suraeNoether> nothing except handle pronunciation
21:16:42 <suraeNoether> sorry to tag you :\
22:51:59 <charuto> oh, all good. yeah my alias can be a little bit weird to pronounce.
22:53:08 <charuto> anyways, i hope the two of you (SNs) sort out the health issues, that definitely comes first, and hopefully, maybe one day you'll be back, stronger than ever. forcing yourself to do work you don't enjoy or that you don't get what you want out of it ultimately just leads to a worse situation, so it's definitely the right call to take a break and focus on other endeavours. you two are legends and i'm sure our
22:53:09 <charuto> community is glad to have had you.