-
benthumb2000
Monero takes privacy seriously. Monero needs to be able to protect users in a court of law and, in extreme cases, from the death penalty.
-
benthumb2000
Sounds serious
-
Inge-
Where is that from?
-
sethsimmons
Atomic swaps based on h4sheds methods was added to Particl, not sure if there’s anything of interest for us there:
-
sethsimmons
-
sethsimmons
-
sethsimmons
Was already shared in Reddit, I’m a bit behind the curve these days 😅
-
sarang
Reminder that our research meeting is today at 17:00 UTC
-
sarang
I'll be sharing some timing results from the new Gray method for Triptych and Arcturus
-
sarang
and I also shared my code with the Zcoin team, since the method would apply to Lelantus as well, with different efficiency
-
» sarang starts typing lots of numbers into a plot
-
sarang
-
sech1
so verification time is O(N) for all these?
-
sech1
hmm, looks a bit sub-linear to me
-
sarang
Verification is `O(N/lg(N))` in the input set size
-
binaryFate
lg is always log10 in English right?
-
sarang
Nope, I use the convention that `lg == log2`
-
binaryFate
ok
-
sarang
Triptych and Arcturus can use any base for the decompositions, but this work assumes base-2
-
sarang
Proof sizes for input set size `N = n^m` have proof elements scaling as `m*n` and others scaling as `m`
-
sarang
er, `m*(n-1)` actually, for the former
-
sarang
Using large fixed anonymity sets shared between proofs can help efficiency, which is what Lelantus is doing
-
sarang
But there are usability and security implications to this
-
sarang
I'm assuming that we share input sets only within transactions
-
sarang
You could get clever and do some partial batching for transactions sharing some of those sets, but this assumes a sort of worst-case verification scenario
-
sarang
One of the data points seems like an outlier
-
sarang
probably just a timing fluke on the test machine; I'd ignore it
-
gingeropolous
methinks a linear y axis would be more telling
-
sarang
It still will look like a bunch of lines that are really close together, since it scales up so quickly
-
sarang
The point is that Gray doesn't always win, and that the benefits are highly dependent on how you construct and verify proofs, and on how you choose input sets across proofs
-
sarang
For something like Lelantus, they use giant windowed sets
-
sarang
But this has implications for spend heuristics and usability that are subtle
-
sarang
It will be very interesting to see what results the Lelantus team finds in any experiments they do
-
sech1
Looking at these charts... It looks like they're all linear, so it mostly depends on the quality of their implementation. Code optimizations can turn the tables.
-
sarang
Yeah, a lot of this depends on things like how inversions are performed
-
sarang
While you shave off a lot of scalar-scalar operations when computing certain coefficients, you replace that with an expensive inversion process
-
sarang
and you obviously want to reduce the number of times you have to do this inversion
-
sarang
We could get a lot of benefits from doing Zcoin-style large sets, but this could get complicated pretty quickly
-
sarang
and the security implications are bit iffy IMO
-
sarang
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] September monthly report from Sarang Noether (self.Monero) | 1 points (100.0%) | 1 comments | Posted by SarangNoether | Created at 2020-09-30 - 15:48:27
-
sarang
good bot
-
Isthmus
If I do something like a sweep_all that only requires 1 output, and the wallet (as required by consensus) adds a second dummy output, what does it use for the address of the dummy?
-
Isthmus
(of course, this is a wallet-level design decision, and nothing that can be observed or enforced by the protocol)
-
dEBRUYNE
It is randomly generated afaik
-
sarang
All right, time for our meeting!
-
sarang
First, greetings!
-
sarang
Hi
-
ArticMine
Hi
-
» sarang waits a few minutes for folks to arrive
-
sgp_
hello
-
dEBRUYNE
Hi
-
binaryFate
hello
-
Isthmus
Salutations
-
sarang
OK, let's move to roundtable, where anyone is welcome to share research topics of interest
-
sarang
Does anyone wish to begin?
-
sarang
If not, I'll go first
-
sarang
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] September monthly report from Sarang Noether (self.Monero) | 26 points (97.0%) | 5 comments | Posted by SarangNoether | Created at 2020-09-30 - 15:48:27
-
sarang
It's the last report for my funding period
-
sarang
This past week, I gave a talk for the MCC virtual conference on privacy
-
sarang
and participated in a panel on privacy
-
sarang
I took cargodog[m]'s idea for `n`-ary Gray codes and build working prototypes for both Triptych and Arcturus in Python and in C++
-
sarang
and shared some timing results earlier today
-
sarang
I also updated the Triptych code for more efficient batching across proofs within the same transaction
-
sarang
That's about it for my update
-
h4sh3d[m]
Hi (sorry I can't attend today, have a good meeting)
-
sgp_
I assume you have no ETA on the MCC videos being released?
-
sarang
No problem h4sh3d[m]
-
sarang
I don't know what their plans are for videos, sorry
-
sarang
I know they were recorded though
-
sgp_
did you publish the slides anywhere?
-
sarang
No, but I can post them later today if that's useful
-
sarang
They needed Google Slides, so I can post a PDF but not any source code for them
-
sarang
Were there any other questions on my research topics?
-
sarang
-
sarang
OK, does anyone else wish to share research of interest?
-
sarang
Quiet channel today!
-
sarang
If not, I can discuss the Gray code stuff a bit more
-
sarang
-
sarang
I haven't put it into `gnuplot` yet
-
sarang
There's an outlier data point for the `Triptych Gray 2-2` dataset that's just a timing fluke, and can be safely ignored
-
sarang
(dashed blue line)
-
dEBRUYNE
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] Sarang Noether of the Monero Research Lab will be speaking at the Magical Crypto Conference today at 1:15 PM EDT (Privacy: The Collision of Theory and Practice) and 1:55 PM EDT (Is Bitcoin Falling Behind on Privacy - Panel) (
magicalcryptoconference.com/2020-vr#agenda) to r/Monero | 73 points (97.0%) | 13 comments | Posted by dEBRUYNE_1 | Created at 2020-09-26 - 14:37:48
-
sarang
If anyone has issues with differentiating the colors, please let me know here (or DM me) and I can provide a version with better color accessibility
-
sarang
Thanks dEBRUYNE!
-
dEBRUYNE
np
-
sarang
Our use case for the Gray results in Triptych/Arcturus is to use common input sets within transactions, but not necessarily between proofs
-
sarang
This is distinct from something like Lelantus, where they intend to reuse large common input sets across many proofs
-
sarang
For our use case, the Gray method only starts "winning" between 64-128 sizes, and is different as you increase the number of inputs
-
sarang
This input-based advantage can be removed if we were to overhaul the way inversions are performed
-
sarang
And as you can see, while there is an improvement for larger input set sizes, it's reasonably marginal (single-digit percent decreases in time)
-
sarang
I shared my code with the Lelantus team; they may wish to conduct their own timing experiments based on their particular use case
-
sgp_
looking at that plot now. very nice
-
sarang
and it sounds like cargodog[m] intends to add this to their own Rust implementation of Arcturus
-
binaryFate
Where can I read about the Gray code idea after being out of the loop? Meetings logs?
-
sarang
One sec binaryFate, will get some links for ya
-
sarang
-
binaryFate
thanks!
-
sarang
cargodog[m] had implemented a binary Gray code method for their Groth/Kohlweiss proof implementation
-
sarang
and speculated that it could be useful for the Bootle optimization used in Arcturus/Lelantus/Triptych
-
sarang
I implemented the idea using `n`-ary Gray codes for Arcturus and Triptych in Python (for prototyping) and in C++ (for timing)
-
sarang
Kudos to cargodog[m] for this super clever idea
-
sgp_
it does look like mostly a wash
-
sarang
By switching from standard `n`-ary decomposition of integers to `n`-ary Gray decompositions, you simplify the multiplications used in computing certain scalars, but replace with an expensive inversion process whose complexity can be amortized
-
sarang
It's a wash for this particular kind of input set choice
-
sarang
But for other applications can have much better improvements
-
ArticMine
Any differences in transaction size?
-
sarang
No
-
sarang
Transaction size is identical
-
sarang
it's only how the proof elements are computed that changes
-
ArticMine
So a very small improvement in verification time
-
sarang
For the current use case of non-overlapping input sets between transactions, yes
-
sarang
Even with this use, it would be possible to overhaul the code to batch the expensive inversion across unrelated proofs, which I did not do here
-
sarang
So a batch would require only one such inversion
-
sarang
However, if the input sets don't overlap, I think the benefit to this would be fairly minimal
-
sarang
You really see the efficiency if you batch many proofs with the same input set, and also batch the inversions
-
sarang
As you can see, it gets really subtle
-
ArticMine
thinks
-
sarang
Anyway, this provides some reasonable timing data for this idea
-
sarang
I look forward to seeing the results of any experiments that cargodog[m] or the Lelantus team conduct
-
sarang
Since cargodog[m] uses a more efficient crypto library, and the Lelantus use case for batching and input sets is very different from ours
-
sarang
At any rate, it's a very interesting idea
-
sarang
and it was a fun challenge to implement for this experiment
-
UkoeHB_
cool work
-
UkoeHB_
btw ArticMine where are you at with the fee proposal?
-
UkoeHB_
it sounded like you were planning to reassess some aspects
-
ArticMine
The question I see is spam risk.
-
ArticMine
Which I feel for the most part can be mitigated
-
ArticMine
Then we can mover to using the long term median as a penalty free zone
-
ArticMine
Which effectively allows for very stable fees
-
ArticMine
The key is that for a Big bang attack it is neutral
-
ArticMine
since once the LT median moves then Big Bang moves on
-
UkoeHB_
ah my suggestion was to use the long-term-median for penalty zone, and let the penalty free zone fluctuate, are you thinking the opposite? if the penalty zone fluctuates then fees will fluctuate more
-
ArticMine
It is maintaining the sort term median that deters big bang
-
ArticMine
Yes using the LT median as the penatly free zone
-
binaryFate
can you elaborate what the "spam risk" would look like?
-
ArticMine
Basically there are tow cases
-
ArticMine
1) For a pre existing Big Bang attack there is no change since it does not make sense for the spammer to maintain the long term median
-
ArticMine
2) If the short term median falls below the long term median then it crease a similar situation to what we have now but at much higher block size and price
-
ArticMine
So the cost of spamming node relay f=minimum fee is much higher
-
ArticMine
There would be no penalty to get back to the long term median as there is now no penalty to get to 300000 bytes
-
ArticMine
but the cost of the spam in real terms would be much higher than ti is now
-
ArticMine
It is a much simple solution also than what we have now
-
ArticMine
SO the code wold be simpler
-
UkoeHB_
Ill have to think about this a bit
-
ArticMine
It comes down to can we have 100x the transaction rate and no increase in price
-
ArticMine
I do not think that is realistic
-
binaryFate
agree with you
-
ArticMine
So the cost of the ham in real terms remains the same, but the cost of the spam for a given % increase in block weight increases with price
-
sarang
OK, any other research topics to address before we end the meeting?
-
Isthmus
Any interest in setting block size by encrypted miner vote?
-
Isthmus
(which would boil down to the Nakamoto consensus assumption that 51% of miners will behave in the best interest of the network)
-
Isthmus
An Insight Fellow is playing around with building an noninteractive ZKP mechanism for this, based on Pallier encrypted voting
-
sarang
Oh interesting; I did not know this was happening
-
Isthmus
(each block contains one trinary vote for {decrease, same, increase})
-
sgp_
what benefit would this bring?
-
ArticMine
Miner can effectively put a limit themselves any way
-
binaryFate
Any human input sounds like degrading from a purely algorithmic solution, but this is certainly interesting research
-
Isthmus
@sgp Well right now in 2020 we're trying to figure out a dynamic block size algorithm that produces desirable results in 2030, but I dunno how big transactions will be, how fast internet will be, how much transaction volume we'll have, etc.
-
Isthmus
So if we go with encrypted miner voting, then 2030 block size is set by 2030 miners, instead of 2020 researchers
-
Isthmus
And miners would have the best understanding of how much their infra can handle before blocks get too big, etc
-
sgp_
so this would overrule existing restrictions?
-
ArticMine
With the current situation the miners can still limit the block weight
-
Isthmus
Miners can choose to make smaller blocks than the algo allows, but cannot choose to make bigger blocks than the algo allows
-
Isthmus
So it's one-sided
-
Isthmus
@sgp - doesn't have to.
-
Isthmus
Could be that we have a dynamic algo, but miners can vote some change on top of that
-
Isthmus
Right now it's just a toy, haven't worked it into a fully functioning secure economic model yet
-
ArticMine
Miner voting has only been proposed in cois that have a fixed block size such as Bitcoin
-
ArticMine
and Bytecoin
-
ArticMine
when the block reward falls to zero
-
Isthmus
Interesting, in those systems, what are they voting on/for?
-
ArticMine
Blocksize
-
ArticMine
In Ethereum max gas consumption per block
-
Isthmus
Ah yea, each ETH miner can vote +1/1024 or -1/1024 if I recall correctly
-
UkoeHB_
Hmm ArticMine using the long term median for penalty free zone still leaves us with minimum fee issues. Namely issues around if the short term median collapses then transactions with pre-collapse minimum fees will be invalid. That's unless we set a floor on the min fee based on the long term median. Doing that may make perfect sense actually, since if the short term median is low then you are unlikely to be
-
UkoeHB_
filling the penalty free zone anyway (assuming PFZ is now based on long term median).
-
UkoeHB_
or ceiling* I guess
-
ArticMine
The fee is set effectively by the long term median because the penalty free zone is a floor for the short term median
-
binaryFate
Especially because Monero makes a point to be mined on generic hardware, I would not assume much long-term interest or economic self-benevolence from Monero miners
-
UkoeHB_
aren't there dangers of cartelization if block size is based on voting? since you can force up the fees
-
binaryFate
It's different from what you would expect from miners who bought specialized hardware for other coins
-
ArticMine
<UkoeHB_> aren't there dangers of cartelization if block size is based on voting? since you can force up the fees <--- Very much so
-
Isthmus
"aren't there dangers of cartelization if block size is based on voting? since you can force up the fees" <--- this is the case now too, right? If lots of miners decided to voluntarily suppress block size, or something like that?
-
ArticMine
but it is the only option to a fixed block size for coions with falling emission
-
ArticMine
Cartels fail eventually
-
UkoeHB_
heck it's even worse than cartelization since the incentive to vote for small blocks is presented to all miners; cartelizing just forces out transactions not other miners
-
UkoeHB_
cartelizing nowadays is a losing proposition since other miners will just take the remaining tx
-
UkoeHB_
so the cartel has to operate at a loss unless they have a serious competitive advantage, but even then it's dubious
-
Isthmus
The way we implemented it, 501 of 1000 miners must vote for any block size change, so the cartel must be > 51%, implying failure of Nakamoto consensus asssumption
-
Isthmus
(again, that's just our toy version)
-
Isthmus
to clarify: a block size change will not occur unless >51% of miners voted for it
-
Isthmus
Anywho, once it's finished up, I'll share a link here
-
Isthmus
Sorry to derail the convo past time
-
sarang
Good discussion!
-
sarang
Let's go ahead and adjourn, and discussions can of course continue
-
sarang
A reminder that today is my last day of funded research
-
sarang
Anyone else is welcome to lead future research meetings if they wish
-
sarang
Thanks to the community for ongoing support of research; it's greatly appreciated
-
Isthmus
<3 <3 <3
-
moneromooo
This is just about prodding people to share/discuss what they worked on recently, right ?
-
moneromooo
Anything else ?
-
sarang
It's whatever this channel wants it to be
-
sarang
That's what makes communities so interesting... they get to decide what they want to be
-
sgp_
Hey sarang, I know you are done with your proposal now, but you are truly amazing to work with, and you are without a doubt one of the greatest assets to Monero, ever. Words can't express how grateful I am.
-
moneromooo
I will try to if noone does it. If I remmeber :)
-
sarang
I appreciate that sgp_, and I appreciate you as well!
-
» moneromooo agrees, sarang kicks ass
-
sarang
:D
-
sarang
thanks, everyone
-
binaryFate
shall we keep the same rythm for the meetings as a default get together & share time?
-
sarang
I will not regularly check IRC, but I am available if needed by email at sarang [dot] noether [at] proton mail [dot] com
-
UkoeHB_
Isthmus my revised point is that there doesn't need to be a cartel in a block voting scenario, since all miners are economically incentivized to vote for small blocks. Even solo miners. If the vote fails, it doesn't affect them. However with an algorithmic dynamic block size all miners who 'vote' for small blocks by ignoring transactions are directly penalized with the opportunity cost.
-
Isthmus
Ahh I see what you were saying
-
» Isthmus nods
-
dEBRUYNE
sgp_: +1!
-
binaryFate
I second sgp_'s words 1000%. Best wishes for whatever you're planning your life to look like this month and next.
-
UkoeHB_
Two hips and a hooray for sarang :)
-
ArticMine
All the best sarang. It has been an absolute pleasure working with you
-
kinghat[m]
thanks sarang 🙏
-
sarang
This community has more than its fair share of badass contributors; thanks for all the support and collaboration :)
-
sarang
-
cargodog[m]
Sorry I missed the meeting, got caught up in something else. Wish you the best sarang!
-
sarang
thanks cargodog[m]
-
sarang
I miss everyone already :/
-
sarang
and it's been like 4 minutes
-
hyc
dang sarang
-
cargodog[m]
Its never too late to come back ;)
-
sarang
I'm not usually a very emotional guy, but hot damn...
-
Isthmus
MRL fam forever
-
binaryFate
enjoy the break but come back around visiting community and friends if nothing else :)
-
sarang
I'll obviously leave my GitHub up so code and research stays available for anyone who wants it
-
hyc
good I'll be sure to peper it with issues from time to time just to poke you
-
needmoney90
It's never too late to change your mind :D
-
needmoney90
And why would you leave IRC :c
-
UkoeHB_
ArticMine: are you planning to write up your updated algorithm recommendations?
-
Inge-
sarang: It has been an absolute pleasure to have you working in the community - you brought very important legitimacy through your research and sharing. On a personal note, thanks for answering my silly n00b questions with nothing but patience and courtesy. You will be missed. A lot.
-
sarang
It's been my honor to be a part of this community
-
ArticMine
<UkoeHB_> ArticMine: are you planning to write up your updated algorithm recommendations? <--- Yes.
-
ArticMine
I should have it finalized in the next two weeks
-
cargodog[m]
sarang: Have you revealed where you'll be going next? Whoever gets to work with you is getting a great addition to their team.
-
sarang
I'm not totally sure what my future plans will be
-
ErCiccione[m]
Thanks for everything sarang. Will be weird to not see your name popping here and there
-
sarang
<#
-
sarang
s/#/3
-
monerobux
sarang meant to say: <3
-
sarang
good bot =p
-
sarang
Can another chanop remove my op privileges from this channel?
-
sarang
It doesn't seem appropriate to retain them
-
sarang
moneromooo etc.
-
sarang
Also from #monero-research-lounge plz
-
sarang
I don't know if I can remove my own op privileges
-
moneromooo
I am op just in -lounge from yesterday. I can remove it if you really want but I see no harm in leaving it as is for now.
-
sarang
It's ultimately up to the channel
-
binaryFate
IRC op have nothing to do with funding or working status, it's just about trust.
-
sarang
ok
-
binaryFate
Don't see a reason to remove you unless you want it
-
dEBRUYNE
Don't see a reason either to remove it
-
needmoney90
I don't think sarang will abuse it lol
-
needmoney90
And I'd consider it a nod to hoping he comes back :)
-
sarang
Pretty sure I've banned maybe one user, and it was clearly a spambot
-
sarang
I think it's very fortunate that there hasn't really been a need to kick/ban anyone besides spambots in the channel
-
needmoney90
Moderation isn't just about taking action, it's about setting a cultute
-
needmoney90
Culture*
-
sarang
moneromooo: I do recommend having at least one other op in -lounge, but it's up to the group
-
sarang
Well said needmoney90
-
Inge-
In general there is very little disruption in any of the monero channels, so moderation is pretty light.
-
sarang
Sure, but I think it's useful and good for accountability not to have a single op
-
moneromooo
AFAIK the core team can give ops to whoever they see fit on any monero channel.
-
sarang
True, they have some kind of special status with freenode
-
binaryFate
correct
-
binaryFate
not meddling with each channel policies (unless OPs go bonkers and infrindge freenode rules and paint a bad picture on Monero) but easy to get back a channel without OP or other practical issues
-
knaccc
sarang today is a sad day, you've been so core to monero's progress that i'm struggling to comprehend you won't be full-time any more. thanks for all of your awesomeness!
-
john_alan
Completely agree with Knaccc
-
john_alan
Lots of smart guys around here, but you are towards the top of the pile
-
sarang
Thanks everyone; these kind words are really appreciated
-
kinghat[m]
what if a company hired you to work on xmr/crypto research full time?
-
kinghat[m]
or does burnout mean you want a change in scenery?
-
sarang
I certainly need some time off from research; because I never included vacation time specifically in my funding proposals, I didn't really take proper time off
-
sarang
This was probably a mistake in hindsight... but at the same time, would donors really want to fund time off?
-
Snipa
The work has certainly been appreciated, and I'd like to think the donors would be fine funding some time off as part of the proposals, particularly if you return in the future. :) I'd like to think most of them are reasonable people who like their own time off from work projects.
-
sarang
If a company hired me to work on open privacy research full time with longer-term stable funding, perhaps that could help to provide a healthier work-life balance, but I suppose it would depend on the particular circumstances
-
dEBRUYNE
sarang: I think donors would definitely symphatize with, say, 1 week off per quarter
-
sarang
At any rate, this community has many excellent researchers, developers, and other contributors
-
sarang
And there are certainly interesting funding proposals on the table presently
-
sarang
It may be helpful to revisit the Bulletproofs+ proposal
-
sarang
I had hoped to complete a C++ implementation, but did not end up having the time to do so
-
sarang
I did produce a Python prototype, FWIW
-
john_alan
❤️
-
kenshamir[m]
Gonna miss sarang. I know you will do well in whatever you choose next, whether that’s crypto or teaching or whatever. When one door closes, another door opens
-
kenshamir[m]
If I can bear witness, it will be really exciting to see how you grow over the years to come
-
sarang
Thanks kenshamir[m]
-
sarang
It's been a pleasure working with you
-
kenshamir[m]
If you do return, I think it will be with a new outlook on life and maybe even some new ideas on crypto. Yeah, I do hope that I will be able to follow your growth
-
kenshamir[m]
You’ve taught me a lot, it was a pleasure working with you :)
-
kenshamir[m]
I do also believe that maybe this should be a catalyst for the community to think about long-term stable funding for their most valued people
-
kenshamir[m]
However, this probably goes against Moneros ethos as you would need some sort of company to take care of the logistics
-
kenshamir[m]
Maybe it is a necessary trade-off that needs to be made to attract new cryptographers and software developers and keep them for the long haul?
-
Inge-
yeah some more long-term funding for cryptographic research sounds like an excellent idea
-
kenshamir[m]
Also with the explicit understanding that not all research will produce tangible deliverables. Not really sure how sarang and the others are/were managing to do it, as most research leads to dead ends and failures
-
Inge-
They certainly had some amazing success :)
-
kenshamir[m]
Also with paid time off, or some understanding around vacation times.
-
kenshamir[m]
I think with the above, a cryptographic researcher would certainly be appealing to postgrads and rogue cryptographers. Not my area of knowledge, so no idea how feasible this is to pull off
-
kenshamir[m]
<Inge- "They certainly had some amazing "> Yeah exactly haha, I think it implicitly shows how hard they are/were working for Monero
-
Inge-
It would be really cool to have a way to get someone like that over to a 1 year and maybe even a 3-year gig, with decent renewal in good time
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kenshamir[m]
Yeah definitely, if I can speak even out of place, I think it would be worthwhile to fund sarangs time off now. I for one would definitely contribute as the less work he has to do during his timeoff, the easier it would be for him to recuperate. Even if he chooses to go somewhere else, it would be a sign of good faith to the invaluable work he has done
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binaryFate
I would support it
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Inge-
+1
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kenshamir[m]
Okay good currently three people. I don’t know how CCS works, probably can point it to sarangs stealth address which is somewhere on the repo
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kenshamir[m]
Will wait to see if anyone else will +1
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ArticMine
I would also support it
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dEBRUYNE
Me too
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dEBRUYNE
Perhaps as a gesture of good will, the community can fund, say, 1 month of vacation for sarang
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dEBRUYNE
Then he can properly rest and also doesn't need to worry about the bills for that month
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ArticMine
We need to take into consideration the length over service over 6 years.
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ArticMine
I really need to give some thought to what an appropriate amount would be.
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kenshamir[m]
<ArticMine "We need to take into considerati"> Yeah if possible, I was thinking the quarter
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dEBRUYNE
ArticMine: I suppose we can look at some European countries what they typically grant for vacation days
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dEBRUYNE
I think it's 4-6 weeks per year
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Isthmus
Crypto industry standard in SF is also 4-6 weeks/yr off for vacation
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Isthmus
I encourage my researchers/engs to take real vacations and truly unplug. I want a team of happy / healthy researchers, not a bunch of burned out drones with maximum hours of labor per dollar. You get more bang for the buck with the former, anyways. ;- )
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Isthmus
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Isthmus
in `struct block_header {... ` there is a note `uint8_t minor_version; // now used as a voting mechanism, rather than how this particular block is built`
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Isthmus
Have we ever used minor_version for voting?
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» Isthmus summons @n3ptune to find anomalous use of the `minor_version` field
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moneromooo
Not on mainnet. It was shit and buggy.
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dEBRUYNE
ArticMine: Do you intent to write some kind of proposal btw?
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moneromooo
It's used to gauge the amount of nodes which are ready to follow a fork atm.
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moneromooo
Well, the amount of hash rate really.
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ArticMine
I want first to listen to the comments.
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Isthmus
That makes sense. In recent upgrades over the past few years, do miners change `minor_version` in practice to signal preparation?
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Isthmus
Is its use for this purpose in the wild uncommon/mixed/common?
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ArticMine
Then I would be prepared to make a recommendation
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moneromooo
Yes, when they update their daemon.
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Isthmus
Coolio
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Isthmus
Nothing enforced, right?
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moneromooo
I think it's enforced to be >= major version. Not 100% sure.
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Isthmus
Oh yea, that would be a logical constraint
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kenshamir[m]
<ArticMine "Then I would be prepared to mak"> Given 4-6 weeks per year, that would mean 6-9 months given 6 years of service. This sounds reasonable to me. We should figure out what the living costs are first. Let’s hope sarang does not live in New York or The Valley :)
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dEBRUYNE
I think 2014-2017 was only part time, but we can easily verify that with the CCS/FFS history
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ArticMine
We can use the CCS/FFS history and the historical XMR / USD exchange rate. Then adjust the USD amount to 2020 USD to adjust for fed printing and we would be close
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ArticMine
Then we have a basis