15:51:38 <zkao> .time
16:21:18 <Isthmus> Now
17:00:25 <TheCharlatan> anybody here for the meeting?
17:01:20 <Isthmus> Yep
17:02:14 <TheCharlatan> is sarang around?
17:04:22 <TheCharlatan> I guess not, do you have something to share Isthmus?
17:05:46 <Isthmus> Nah, last week was a holiday so I just worked on some side projects
17:06:08 <Isthmus> I'll probably be tied up for the next few weeks, but then try to finish up the paper by EOY
17:06:14 <Isthmus> What about you @TheCharlatan
17:07:19 <h4sh3d[m]> hi
17:07:25 <TheCharlatan> haven't done anything monero related in the past week besides the release on Friday.
17:07:34 <Isthmus> Hey @h4sh3d[m]
17:07:40 <SerHack> Hey
17:09:34 <TheCharlatan> I have not really been paying attention if the release had any further positive effects on the network.
17:11:49 <zkao> hello
17:12:19 <Isthmus> Welcome @SerHack @zkao :)
17:12:24 <Isthmus> What have y'all been up to?
17:12:34 <selsta> The latest release mostly had Dandelion++ improvements, not mitigations against the current sybil attack.
17:13:23 <zkao> worked on the temporal windows of safety for publishing btc txs for the atomic swaps
17:13:25 <selsta> It did improve translation broadcast time, but we will need another release for the current attacks.
17:14:18 <SerHack> I'm setting up an honeypot for Monero RPC. I believe there's someone who keeps trying to transfer some monero into their wallet.
17:15:09 <Isthmus> Ooh really?
17:15:15 * Isthmus is intriguedd
17:15:22 <Isthmus> s/dd/d
17:15:41 <Isthmus> `<monerobux>` Isthmus meant to say: "/me Isthmus is intrigued"
17:15:55 <Isthmus> or something like that. Can we voice the bot?
17:16:33 <Isthmus> Oh it's not even in here
17:16:50 <Isthmus> Anyways @SerHack what are your suspicions?
17:16:51 <hyc> zkao: can the atomic swaps be 3-party?
17:17:07 <hyc> essentially performing the function that xmr.to does now
17:17:24 <hyc> A commits XMR to B, B commits BTC to C
17:17:35 <zkao> I dont understand, who is the third party?
17:17:51 <zkao> ah, you mean, give a bitcoin address that is not controlled by me
17:17:51 <hyc> A is a customer who wants to buy product from C< who only accepts BTC
17:17:55 <hyc> yes
17:18:21 <zkao> that should work, yes, is that correct, h4sh3d ?
17:19:36 <h4sh3d[m]> yes, you can send the bitcoin somewhere else without the need of extra transaction
17:20:33 <h4sh3d[m]> just set the "bitcoin destination address" to C's address, if I understand correctly
17:21:01 <h4sh3d[m]> during the swap you don't need to have control over this address, so your fine if it's C's address
17:21:54 <hyc> sounds great, thanks
17:22:24 <hyc> that sounds like a much more practical use now, to me.
17:22:59 <h4sh3d[m]> but in that case A receives nothing, right?
17:23:04 <hyc> right
17:24:08 <h4sh3d[m]> ok, then yes. I wouldn't define it as a three party swap, as for me it implies three assets exchanged atomically.
17:24:22 <hyc> but it means I can spend my XMR anywhere BTC is accepted, without ever having to maintain my own BTC wallet
17:24:31 <h4sh3d[m]> it's a two party swap between three participants :)
17:24:50 <zkao> yep, i think of lightning multi hop transactions when i read it at first
17:24:51 <h4sh3d[m]> yes
17:25:35 <h4sh3d[m]> this scenario, as you mentioned, is xmr.to but with atomic swap
17:25:41 <hyc> yes
17:26:08 <zkao> but its very easy to DOS this service
17:26:49 <h4sh3d[m]> without introducing a reputation system on "Monero players"
17:26:49 <zkao> because of the locking of funds, and later cancelation
17:27:37 <zkao> the atomic swap xmr.to would have to lock the bitcoin upfront, and the monero side might not do anything
17:27:55 <zkao> then xmr.to would have to ask for refund
17:28:42 <hyc> ah, that sounds too bad
17:29:44 <hyc> so this is still only viable if A and B trust each other
17:30:04 <Isthmus> This gets more into business models than tech, so might be out of scope, but there could be ways around it like charging the fee from the XMR holder before the lockup (so that if the XMR party dips, the BTC party received funding to make up for the inconvenience of locked funds)
17:30:07 <h4sh3d[m]> it's particularly bad in an open setup, a services where everyone can start as many swap they want
17:31:50 <h4sh3d[m]> yep, we can move on (and continue on monero-swap latter if wanted)
17:32:33 <h4sh3d[m]> Isthmus: I'm really impatient to see some plots about transaction unlock time and other properties
17:32:50 <h4sh3d[m]> related to the paper you previously shared here
17:33:41 <Isthmus> Which plots in particular? I’ll prioritize them
17:35:26 <h4sh3d[m]> For me the one that seems the most promising is the unlock time, I had some discussion with TheCharlatan and was amazed by the creativity of some devs haha
17:36:04 <zkao> u mean, the too early spents?
17:36:53 <Isthmus> I'll get some figures for both included : )
17:37:05 <Isthmus> That's the paper I'm hoping to tidy up during holidays at the end of the year
17:38:31 <h4sh3d[m]> Great
17:40:31 <TheCharlatan> SerHack so what is this honeypot of yours?
17:51:35 <SerHack> Simply a RPC catcher; at the moment I found only one person that was looking for my balance 👀