00:23:38 <ndorf> not sure i understand your question. how would compromise of wallet A expose the existence of wallet B?
00:24:10 <ndorf> apotheon: even just the daemon host/port isn't stored with the wallet, it's only a command-line parameter to the wallet or at worst in a config file (also separate from wallet)
00:24:36 <ndorf> even if it were, knowing that there is a daemon at host:port doesn't tell you if there are other wallets that are also connecting to it.
00:35:38 <apotheon> ndorf: The system with Wallet A on it can't connect to the system with Wallet B on it without knowing how to get to Wallet B.
00:35:59 <apotheon> ndorf: It's like visiting a clearweb site through Tor.  To access it, you have to know where it is.
00:36:47 <apotheon> Thus, if your client system did something the IRS doesn't like, and the clearweb site was how it got done, you have exposed the clearweb site to discovery by the IRS if the IRS gets your client computer.
00:36:51 <apotheon> same idea
00:36:55 <apotheon> Is there something that prevents this?
00:47:16 <ndorf> i'm not following. how does the existence of a daemon suggest that there is a second wallet connecting to said daemon?
00:49:21 <ndorf> is your concern simply because the "secret" wallet happens to be on the same system as the daemon, and they'll seize the whole system, thereby discovering the secret wallet?
00:49:31 <ndorf> if so the solution is obvious, just keep the secret wallet elsewhere.
00:53:13 <apotheon> so three systems now
00:53:17 <apotheon> hmm
00:53:19 <ndorf> if you only have the two systems to work with, then perhaps just swap the two wallets? keep the "public" wallet on the same box as the daemon, and the secret wallet on your "cypherdeck"
00:53:47 <apotheon> I'll have to think about the implications of that.
00:54:02 <ndorf> BTW i don't think an IRS audit necessarily means your system is getting seized. most likely they demand records, you provide your view key or whatever, and that's that
00:54:31 <apotheon> I just came up with "IRS audit" as a stand-in for "whatever".
00:54:51 <ndorf> yeah, that's fair enough, just thought i'd mention th at.
00:55:23 <apotheon> I mean, it might end up being an interaction between red flag laws and storage laws leading to prison time and seizure of all my computers for another example, but that's a less accessible explanation for just a random "what if" where the specific legalities aren't the issue I want to address.
00:56:28 <ndorf> so i think the "problem" boils down to a wallet you want to keep secret being on the same system as the node, which might be easily discovered. right?
00:56:41 <ndorf> so, third system for the secret wallet, or swap secret and public wallets between the two systems you already have.
00:56:55 <ndorf> said third system could even be an android phone with monerujo
00:56:58 <apotheon> I would like the supper-sekrit wallet to be more portable, in that it still works without having to connect to someone else's blockchain if I have to throw it in a backpack and leave because . . . I dunno, because a forest fire in the Rockies destroys my home.
00:57:18 <ndorf> there's also the option of just having the full blockchain on both systems?
00:57:24 <apotheon> maybe
00:57:36 <apotheon> That gets more expensive.  I'd have to buy big SSDs for both of them.
00:57:39 <ndorf> --add-exclusive-node=<public_node> on the secret system's daemon.
00:57:46 <apotheon> . . . and while that's far from unaffordable, spending less is generally preferable.
00:58:08 <ndorf> another option: encrypt everything, refuse to reveal the passphrases.
00:58:25 <ndorf> last i checked, fifth amendment still supports you there.
00:58:28 <apotheon> I'm not confident in my ability to resist rubber hose cryptanalysis.
00:58:46 <ndorf> ok, so steganography or hidden volumes?
00:58:51 <apotheon> Last I checked, every time I think the Constitution covers something, it changes a few years later.
00:58:53 <ndorf> TOTALLY_NOT_A_WALLET.JPG
00:58:55 <apotheon> hah
00:58:56 <apotheon> right
00:59:12 <apotheon> I'll probably just have to compromise slightly on this.
00:59:56 <apotheon> The issue seems to be not-fully-solvable in a sane way right now, so I'll just go for the best-effort solution, whatever that ends up being by the time I'm ready to install everything.
01:00:45 <ndorf> also FWIW, i've been using this cheap SSD for a few months and it hasn't failed yet: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N46A9YL/
01:00:51 <ndorf> hm, seems to have gone up in price, but still $35 for 240GB
01:04:01 <apotheon> Hyundai?
01:04:11 <apotheon> I drive a Hyundai, but I don't have a Hyundai drive.
01:15:31 <Bill48105> beans n franks
01:25:05 <ndorf> lol
02:19:16 <cbuekkji> FIY, you want to know why you are getting those daily messages? Cults NEED to control information. That's why people like lh1008 get savagly attacked (also called disconnection) for even talking to me. Break the information embargo, break the cult. Who would sign up to Scientology if they knew from the get-go that is is about a sci-fi alien overlord? Who would sign up to MAGA if they knew what a loser Trump is?
02:19:16 <cbuekkji> You don't sign up to MAGA to do a failed Viking LARP and some time off in club fed. You sign up because you feel like shit and they promise to give you self-respect. It is a total lie of course, you are still a joke even when cosplaying a Viking. Just like Monero's promise of privacy is a lie.
03:03:23 <knowledgewizard4> false
03:03:38 <knowledgewizard4> it is impossible to joke when you are cosplaying as a viking.
03:19:01 <DisBotXMR3> <itzblaze> i dont get this server do people get replaced with bots
03:22:10 <sand_dull> knowledgewizard4: speaks the truth
03:22:55 <knowledgewizard4> sand_dull: have you seen a comedy called The Knights of Badassdom
03:23:19 <knowledgewizard4> think monty python but larpers
03:23:41 <sand_dull> I have not, I'll have to check it out
03:25:02 <knowledgewizard4> its got peter dinklage in it (the dwarf from got)
03:25:11 <knowledgewizard4> hes obviously the best character and also actor
03:55:12 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Where can I find information about the implications of using a public node vs a self-hosted node?
04:16:49 <ndorf> angrymonkeyboi[m: there might be a better source somewhere, but https://moneroworld.com/ has a summary
04:24:16 <ejscanax> Word of guys running Monero community should be BELIEVED. Why would anyone that stole money and laughed at the losers that took the bait ever have a reason to lie to you? www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/6d5yt5/what_fluffypony_just_did_is_not_ok/
05:53:12 <DisBotXMR3> <KoKo> Idk right?
06:53:29 <Mochi101> Happy cake day gingeropolous.
07:52:51 <grc001[m]1> On a vpn I downloaded blockchain and have been running node for a few weeks and only ever on the vpn. But. I just had the vpn off and forgot to turn it back on before i starting up node. So now i assume my ISP has now logged that Ive been connected to Monero node. Um, now im a bit paranoid.
07:53:11 <Mochi101> Why?
07:53:44 <Mochi101> Are you in a country where connecting to a Monero Node is illegal?
07:54:27 <grc001[m]1> Was hoping to never have isp never know im connected to node and know i might be gettin monero
07:54:43 <grc001[m]1> Nah not illegal.
07:54:59 <grc001[m]1> Just hate it how its logged now
07:55:41 <grc001[m]1> Just pissed off at myself for not turning vpn back on faarrk
07:56:25 <Mochi101> Well, best thing you can do right now is send me all of your Monero to keep it safe from your ISP.
07:56:35 <Mochi101> Promise that I'll give it back when you ask for it.
07:56:47 <grc001[m]1> lol probably not
07:57:30 <Mochi101> Seriously, you can just send it to mochi101⊙mi
09:16:54 <izbmugqazsif> Why are you here? For the tech? Then you should be off at Zcash instead of trying to con newbies into a coin that doesn't work. For the money? If you put your money in BTC or ETH you would have been better off. For the magical crypto friends? Monero leadership laughs from losers like that. Find yourself more healthy realationships that don't laugh at you when they steal your money.
09:18:14 <charolastra> someone will always know if you don't connect through tor. either your ISP or your VPN provider. don't fall for that "no logging VPN" meme
09:19:28 <ErCiccione> I'm getting tired of this spam. If there is no way to stop it, we should consider abandoning Freenode.
09:19:53 <ErCiccione> Obsessive disorders are an ugly beast :(
09:22:16 <Mochi101> Abandon Freenode for some scriptkiddy?
09:22:23 <Mochi101> Seems...
09:22:59 <moneromooo> You can use /ignore for the spam, it's always the same stuff (mostly).
09:23:09 <ErCiccione> Don't feel too sorry for him tho. Obsessive disorders are fairly common, but if you ride them instead of fighting them, you end up like this. We can only wait until he finds something else to hate.
09:27:00 <charolastra> you can only ignore nicks and he changes his every time. also only posting a single line
09:27:25 <charolastra> handling this situation would be the job of the admins
09:28:33 <moneromooo> Ah, shame. Patch your client, send patch to authors :)
09:32:13 <ErCiccione> well, he has been able to spam this channel for months now. Freenode sends everything and there is no way to delete it. That's spammer paradise.
09:32:39 <ErCiccione> Matrix at least gives the possibility to remove messages, which will make the spammer's work useless
09:33:05 <endor00[m]> isn't there an antispam bot for the matrix side? at least it would automate the removal job
09:33:24 <endor00[m]> channels like the MRL are still full of spam
09:33:45 <ErCiccione> Matrix has several anti-spam features AFAIK, but the simple ability to remove the messages will do it here.
09:33:56 <ErCiccione> if the spam comes from freenode, matrix cannot do anything about it
09:34:16 <ErCiccione> i've been deleting spam messages on the MRL channel for months now, but that's only useful for matrix users
09:41:33 <charolastra> it's not like IRC doesn't have a long history of dealing with retards
09:42:11 <Mochi101> Best just to ignore it.
09:43:21 <charolastra> how is that the best aproach? did it change his behavior in the last few months?
09:44:21 <Mochi101> Because there's a larger sacrifice that'll be made trying to silence him.
09:45:02 <moneromooo> As long as it doens't devolve to the nazi/pedo stuff, it's not too annoying tbh.
09:46:12 <Mochi101> charolastra, the goal of those messages is to force the community to close the doors on outsiders. To explude newcomers or make it harder for them to join in and participate.
09:46:12 <charolastra> would making the channel only for registered users be such a larg sacrifice?
09:46:15 <ErCiccione> not for us who know who the guy is. I don't know if i would stick around if i join a room and i find it dominated by spam
09:46:25 <Mochi101> charolastra, read last message
09:47:55 <charolastra> registering on freenode isn't that hard an i bet he's driving away more new people right now. all the "hmm, is that true what he's saying?" messages
09:48:04 <Mochi101> If it's the person that most assume is doing it, then that goal has been clearly stated.
09:48:26 <ErCiccione> I don't think anybody actually for for it
09:48:44 <Mochi101> register nic charolastra ---> [izbmugqazsif] (~izbmugqaz⊙2121): realname
09:48:45 <ErCiccione> *fall for it
09:48:55 <Inge-> "They just wont leave me alone"
09:49:12 <Mochi101> charolastra, do a /whowas izbmugqazsif
09:49:22 <Mochi101> It's a registered nick.
09:50:28 <Mochi101> So now what's your idea?
09:51:17 <charolastra> true, and he just spent time doing that and burned an email address. also now the responsibility is kind of shifted to freenode itself
09:56:53 <Mochi101> Well, he's either totally psycho or he has a bot... I'm torn between these two choices.
09:57:25 <charolastra> me bet is on both :p
09:57:39 <charolastra> *my
10:07:19 <ErCiccione> Guys, he clearly has mental issues and a very bad obsessive disorder. I know it's easy to get mad at that insane behaviour, but please keep in mind it's coming from a sick person.
11:17:00 <ErCiccione> We are changing the header on Getmonero. Let us know your ideas: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1503
13:11:53 <ferox_thinkpad> hello
13:12:00 <ferox_thinkpad> i am a monero newb
13:12:08 <ferox_thinkpad> can i mine on my old i3 laptop
13:15:45 <moneromooo> Probably, but it might not work well enough. You need either 2 GB or 4 GB RAM (I forget) at least.
13:18:33 <moneromooo> Best is to try it. When you tuned it, note down your hash rate, H. Then calculate: 1.127 * 720 * H / 2.3e9. This will tell you many monero you can expect daily on average.
13:18:41 <moneromooo> Then compare to your exlectricity costs.
13:19:22 <ferox_thinkpad> much obliged moneromooo
13:19:42 <knowledgewizard4> <ErCiccione "Matrix at least gives the possib"> I like this solution.  Design a bot that recognizes a certain block of text, remove it, and replace it with refutations based on evidence.
13:20:31 <knowledgewizard4> If he starts changing up the text block to evade the script, design an ML algorithm to train on similar blocks of text to parse what he is doing to make changes and predictively remove, replace with facts, and ban the account, and (optionally) report him to his ISP for abuse.
13:21:43 <knowledgewizard4> He will end up in the worst case training the algorithm for you, and in the best case he will populate the server with a consistent stream of supporting evidence for why Monero is useful.
13:21:46 <moneromooo> It's very likely a botnet if you look. The very thing he previously said monero was bad about because it had a CPU based PoW. Logic ain't working against bad faith people :)
13:22:24 <knowledgewizard4> Certainly.  I'm not arguing for discussion, I'm arguing for a scorched-earth policy using a terminator robot. (:
13:23:30 <knowledgewizard4> Also Freenode bans vpn providers except PIA because they are in bed with PIA, who by the way, was bought by - Kape I think?  Some data aggregation Evil Corpo company - so the whole of Freenode should be taken as a cesspit at this point.
13:24:45 <ErCiccione> I wasn't talking about automatic solutions. Even just a mod being online and able to delete the message when they see it would be enough to make most of the spammer work useless
13:25:06 <sech1> in the end we'll have two GPT-3 bots arguing with each other and providing reasonable arguments :D
13:32:55 <Mochi101> Freenode bans VPN providers?
13:33:50 <selsta> someone just joined with protonvpn
13:33:58 <selsta> so sounds inaccurate that only PIA is allowed
13:34:23 <knowledgewizard4> well, i admit i read that on the internet
13:34:47 <knowledgewizard4> they are however in bed with PIA which was bought last year by a data collection company
13:35:00 <ErCiccione> Maybe it's the other way round and Only PIA is not allowed?
13:35:48 <ErCiccione> oh, in bed not in bad.
13:36:03 <knowledgewizard4> https://freenode.net/news/freenode-pia-changes
13:36:14 <knowledgewizard4> there was also a logo for one on the other's website, im trying to find it
13:37:30 <selsta> so they data mine the chat logs? lol
13:40:12 <knowledgewizard4> https://freenode.net/news/pia-fn
13:42:06 <knowledgewizard4> https://airvpn.org/forums/topic/9399-freenode-bans-airvpn-users/
13:42:30 <selsta> > 2013
13:43:14 <selsta> how is this related?
13:43:16 <knowledgewizard4> i had tried to get on with a vpn, i don't remember which one, and found that my node was blocked
13:43:28 <knowledgewizard4> try it yourself, make up your own mind i guess
13:43:39 <knowledgewizard4> i stopped using freenode as a result, and switched to matrix
13:43:44 <selsta> that's fine
14:06:16 <gingeropolous> <sech1> in the end we'll have two GPT-3 bots arguing with each other and providing reasonable arguments :D >>> yas
14:44:59 <hansh> how come mymonero.com wallet is syncing MUCH faster than the official GUI wallet?
14:47:20 <moneromooo> Because the server's doing the work and you don't see it.
14:47:45 <moneromooo> They might also have sped up the work, not sure. But mostly the server is doing it.
14:52:18 <hansh> oh kk
15:06:52 <fluffypony> moneromooo: it's the server yes
15:12:29 <hansh> how can they do that for free though?
15:13:17 <fluffypony> hansh: we make money on the built-in exchange
15:13:44 <fluffypony> don't need everyone to use that to cover costs
15:18:55 <Mochi101> Doesn't pay for your watches though fluffypony ?
15:20:15 <fluffypony> Mochi101: not even a little bit
15:20:15 <fluffypony> lol
15:21:05 <Mochi101> Somehow, deep down, I knew this.
15:30:02 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> heya guys
15:30:25 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> i saw the atomic swap demo post
15:30:29 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> has anyone tried it?
15:34:39 <dEBRUYNE> Fyse: https://twitter.com/RaphanusR/status/1367913287556431872
15:34:58 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> ah I see
15:35:05 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> I'm trying it right now
15:35:25 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> I thought the xmr lock transaction was me receiving the xmr
15:35:38 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> so I was confused as to why it showed 0xmr sent
15:36:01 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> I'm here atm
15:36:01 <DisBotXMR3> <Fyse> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620459189097201669/817782575736815636/unknown.png
17:15:53 <okbixrvgypu> Do you also secretly wisth your mother was Howard's groupie? https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/bxl87y/it_has_been_a_5_years_since_monero_was_released/eq7qior/
17:37:40 <hhyzsfavl> Look on the bright side. At least you don't need to obsess over signs of life from FUK now.
19:34:20 <mawk> who's howard
19:34:45 <mawk> ah it's hyc
19:39:33 <mawk> why is there a discord bot
19:40:00 <apotheon> for reduced privacy
19:41:19 <hyc> the only people I know who use discord are gamers. and they only use it while in a game
19:49:26 <mawk> lol apotheon
19:49:39 <mawk> lza_menace: max la menace?
19:49:57 <mawk> Αποθεον
19:50:52 <mawk> /kickban DisBotXMR3