03:40:10 You will DO what Monero tells you to do. You will JUMP when you are told to jump. And most importantly you will DISCONNECT whoever Scientology^H^H^H^H^H I mean Mnero tells you to disconnect. Otherwise you WILL end up like lh1008 here: 03:40:11 monerologs.net/monero-community/20210114#c181614 And you will do it all for FREE. Because Monero is open souce :D Just like Linux is there to pay for $700k watches that Torvalds wears. 05:36:17 damn that Torvalds! 05:36:18 lol 07:21:36 A quick, possibly silly question about Monero's tech: Would it be possible to use monero tech for anonymous elections, big or small? Like if one used a separate network and funded accounts for all voters. Then the voters could transfer their "vote" to their favourite candidate's account. The winner of the election would be the account with most moneros. Is it doable? 07:22:48 probably 07:23:10 I wouldn't trust anything like that. For one the end points are going to be vulnerable and not many people will confirm their votes, and two (I am not familiar with this) would there be any way to make sure everyone gets their exact amount of votes? 07:23:51 It might even be *more* private, because there would be far fewer vote "values" possible than Monero transaction values, so they'd be more difficult to distinguish. 07:24:41 wrinkle_hut[m]: I would think making sure everyone gets the right number of votes would be as easy as just building the protocol to allow for a single vote token to be generated and sent to all wallet nodes on the network simultaneously. 07:24:59 Then, you just make sure that votes still in wallets "expire". 07:25:23 Of course, that might make votes private, but perhaps not the fact of whether you voted or not. 07:25:50 true, and then you would need to make sure everyone has exactly one wallet, so I imagine there would need to be a centralization for those certain parts of it, although, making sure everyone gets it and not just say 98% (except a few percent target demographic) would probably be something that people would need to keep a keen eye out for? 07:26:15 Yeah, something like that. 07:27:22 Cool. Thanks :) 07:27:47 I still don't know if I would trust anything unless the hardware was extremely open and well audited and even then personally I am spooked by anything other than mail-in lol 07:28:53 but I do see the benefit in having something more anonymous by design rather than trust 07:29:01 Mail-in is very susceptible to fraud. So is ballot-box and voting-machine shit, though. 07:29:23 I would argue that mail-in and ballot-box are far less vulnerable than most types 07:29:24 I think the blockchain approach is probably the best so far. I've been thinking about this stuff for a while. 07:29:44 if the hardware is well made, then with my limited knowledge I would agree 07:29:55 but electronic backdoors and e-voting I don't like being a thing together, yknow? 07:31:22 I don't know the specific capabilities, but I don't like the idea of people running voting software on say, their home computer on the newest update of windows 10 with tons of proprietary software and games running on hardware with backdoors like the intel ME system or amd PSP and whatever else there is, idk, I just don't know I would trust that unless the device it was running on wasn't like that. 07:31:49 I actually came up with a system that would work about as well as the blockchain approach before BTC's release, but I think blockchains actually make the back end a more elegant system. You just have to make sure people can sign their votes with one key in a keypair they have (and to which no one else has access) so they can verify their own votes on the blockchain to ensure no votes were 07:31:50 although, I probably know less about any of that than some of the people here I am sure lol, I really know not much about any of this. 07:31:55 modified -- the same thing you'd have to do with the system I envisioned back in 2007. 07:32:15 Of course, I'm so shitty at marketing I couldn't get anyone to realize I had a good system for combatting voter fraud while ensuring your votes remain private. 07:32:47 (anybody other than those with whom I was able to speak about it personally, anyway) 07:32:57 But a BTC-ish solution wouldn't be anonymous, would it? 07:33:16 That's why you'd use a Monero-ish solution. 07:34:05 wrinkle_hut[m]: The hardware is only a problem for ensuring everyone who should have a vote does. Of course, they could easily complain about not having gotten their vote. 07:34:40 wrinkle_hut[m]: . . . or are you talking about just not trusting voters to use secure machines? 07:35:28 Secure machines are hard to find... 07:35:34 Yeah. 07:35:37 if you mail everyone a secure machine of their choice to have everything through I guess that could work, but, I bet most people in that situation would just install it on their phones or desktop pcs. 07:36:07 I mean . . . if we're talking about needing really "secure" machines, there's not any (reasonable) way to solve that at all. 07:36:29 start actual production of open hardware 07:36:32 We can do various things to improve security for the voting system relative to what we have now, or anything we've had for the last fifty years. 07:36:42 ship it out to everyone with BSD or linux preinstalled, and make the wallet app only work on those programs. 07:36:48 Estonia tried e-voting with a "hardware" solution, an ID card. Not a big hit since it was possible to derive the private key from the public key. 07:36:49 so non-technical people would be forced to buy one. 07:37:12 wrinkle_hut[m]: The person mailing out the machines would have to be trustworthy, along with the whole supply chain leading up to that person. 07:37:36 boa: That's horrifying. 07:37:51 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card#Security_issues 07:38:33 yes, so, at that point the only solution would be to make sure only a small amount of people would likely to be compromised at any one time. I find the situation for secure voting over anonymous voting might be better, and I bet that mail-in voting could be made far more secure. Honestly, right now the biggest vulnerability is forcing people away from mail in voting and making it impossible to wait in line for target 07:38:33 poor demographics. 07:38:55 The same problem that keeps people from getting good, clean, secure software also keeps the entire electoral system fraught with opportunities for voting fraud. 07:39:00 Voting is dumb, evoting is retarded 07:39:52 wrinkle_hut[m]: How the hell would you "secure" mail-in voting? If you're filling in bubbles on paper and mailing it, it's not secure at all. 07:39:53 If only someday our computer infrastructure would be more trustworthy and open. 07:40:48 Maybe RISC-V will help a little? 07:40:55 ieatglueinthegul: Voting is mathematically fucked. There has been a lot of research done, and even if we assume people's votes should determine how things work we still won't actually get any kind of optimal outcomes measured in terms of some kind of "public will". 07:40:55 the big thing about this type of thing is to prevent mass attacks. 07:41:43 ieatglueinthegul: . . . so yeah, by the time I figured out ideas for how to decentralize (political) voting on top of keeping it private and verifiable I didn't care any longer about trying to get anyone to buy in. 07:42:16 I hope so, I am particularly sad about a lack of open modern gpu. I almost wonder what people even would _do_ for a secure computer nowadays anyways, given the sheer amount of backdoors ect. 07:42:26 boa: I'm certainly hoping for RISC-V improving the open hardware situation. I want computers that are slightly more trustworthy. 07:42:36 Under what assumptions again? 07:43:22 wrinkle_hut[m]: There are people who reasonably disagree on whether voting is a good way to determine how to run the world. Is that what you're asking? 07:44:31 iirc voting has some different flaws depending on what you are voting for (single seat/single issue, multi seat, ect.) so I was curious what assumption your making 07:44:48 Kim Jong Un doesn't think voting is necessary either. 07:44:54 Oh, pretty much every voting system ever invented has flaws at scale. 07:45:19 I mean, by mathmatical definition there isn't a perfect voting system ESPECIALLY for single seat or whatever type voting 07:45:33 yep 07:45:37 Show me something perfect. 07:45:58 not just non-perfect, but (for anything actually practical to employ) nothing is even mostly-great 07:46:32 Negative outcomes emerge more certainly than positive, measured in terms of various attempts to define a "public will". 07:46:50 I wonder 07:47:13 just a random shower thought 07:47:17 Plurality voting is *especially* bad, of course -- and by far the most common. 07:47:39 approval voting for a large list of random actions in a directish democracy to take, the top x of them get done and the rest don't. 07:48:20 A direct democracy would morph into Socialism extremely quickly. 07:48:25 Yeah, the best solution for voting is multi-seat elections. 07:48:37 Fully-engaged ranked voting can get a lot closer, except nobody would like the process enough to bother. 07:48:57 What definition of Socialism? a lot of people throw that word out with very differing definitions. 07:49:09 Yeah, I don't like the idea of ranked choice voting, its too convuluted 07:49:18 I like approval voting, or maybe dissaproval+approval voting 07:49:34 I don't like single seats at all tho tbh 07:49:41 Cardinal systems, like approval, are even more horrible in terms of "user experience". 07:49:48 I think everything should be a multi-seat election. 07:49:51 how so? 07:50:00 all you need to do is just tick each box you like. 07:50:15 iirc it gets about as good results as other things like ranked choice 07:50:19 What definition of Democracy are you talking about? People always throw out the word Democracy but have varying definitions. 07:50:30 Yeah, but approval voting encourages voting from ignorance more than ranked voting. 07:50:36 more elegant, about as good 07:51:20 The psychology of ranked voting encourages people to learn about the differences between candidates. 07:51:28 Approval voting is more about the "feels". 07:51:29 regardless of that, the differences iirc between score and ranked voting in the end are marginal compared to their difference to FPTP 07:51:54 Yeah, first-past/plurality is just shit. 07:52:04 yeah lol 07:52:06 its 07:52:09 insane thats even allowed 07:52:10 On the other hand, you can actually get people to vote with plurality voting. 07:52:30 whenever there is a new constitution they need to make plurality voting unconstitutional LOL 07:52:46 You'd probably lose shit-tons of voters with approval or ranked and, to the extent approval keeps people involved, many of them would almost vote like it was plurality voting anyway. 07:53:35 yeah, I really don't think it would turn people away tho, especially nobody who cared to vote or had any common sense. 07:53:41 There is one circumstance in which approval voting would work like a fucking charm, though: 07:53:53 . . . when you require perfect consensus. 07:53:57 two candidates, nobody else even trying to run. 07:54:18 (assuming that there's a condition for "no consensus") 07:54:32 iirc its ideal for two candidates competing, of which one is preferred. 07:54:53 That is if you don't have other absurd conditions on top of FPTP, like the US does on a variety of levels lol 07:54:54 No, approval voting for a literal binary choice only fucks the way we end up with those specific options. 07:55:01 yeah 07:55:03 . . . as US political BS clearly demonstrates. 07:55:16 but if the voting could literally only be binary, rather than being forced artificially to be binary 07:55:20 then it would work. 07:55:46 Approval voting with a literal binary choice is the same as plurality voting. 07:56:08 nobody but a bad voting system and corruption forced the 2016 election to be Trump and Hillary. Hillary won the votes but lost the other arbitrary conditions tacked on. 07:56:08 Yes. 07:56:28 Oh, yeah, if literally binary as a condition of nature, that changes things. 07:56:31 * nobody but a bad voting system and corruption forced the 2016 election to be Trump and Hillary. Hillary won the votes but lost the other arbitrary conditions tacked on. Either way there was no way for voting for anyone else, which is a non ideal situation given there was more people who could or where running. 07:56:34 yeah 07:56:47 Then you only have to worry about duplicitous propaganda and stupidity. 07:56:48 but like you said even approval voting would behave the same in that situation too 07:57:02 yeah, its a shame how dumb people can be 07:57:34 Have you guys listened to Freakonomics' take on the current situation in US politics, and voting? 07:57:39 I wonder how much could be solved if there was a giant push for real education the likes of which have never been seen. Too bad that corrupt people very much like having not too much of that type of education. 07:57:42 That's not a bug, it's a feature 07:57:44 boa: Current? No. 07:58:00 ieatglueinthegul: That depends on your outlook. 07:58:33 yknow 07:58:40 wrinkle_hut[m]: When you centralize anything, you attract people who want to be corrupted to positions of power, and the system naturally corrupts itself. 07:59:01 That includes educational standards. 07:59:16 yeah, people always upset me. 07:59:21 or well 07:59:23 dissapoint. 07:59:24 He (Dubner) simply asks if the system really is broken, and argues that it isn't. It's a duopoly where the two parties share the power and they both benefit massively. Therefore there won't be any changes 07:59:57 It's fun to sometimes discuss how fucked voting can get, but I've given up on actually caring about it in the real world, because the bet we can do is get better fidelity in measuring how well the corrupt have led the masses astray. 08:00:11 yeah, its insane 08:00:25 the only thing that most people don't seem gullible to is the argument that daylight savings time is a good idea. 08:00:26 boa: That's almost correct. 08:00:50 https://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry-rebroadcast/ 08:00:57 And it's funny, because despite literally everyone hating it, large regions have daylights saving time. 08:00:57 boa: The problem is that things *do* change -- but only in ways that benefit the status quo, and slightly enhance the distinctions between "powerful" and "powerless". 08:01:14 (which has more to do with psychology than with birth) 08:01:45 yknow, I wonder if risc-v will ever be used to make a chip much like a threadripper but with a large number of threads per core. 08:02:01 Every four-year Presidential term of office in the US -- even if it's the same president for a second term -- results in the political and legal landscape getting worse. 08:02:03 I would love a fast cpu with lots of threads per core that is designed on an open standard. 08:02:20 Didn't Sun open source their SPARC design way back? 08:02:39 yknow, given how the supreme court acts, maybe it would be a good thing if everyone had a single term, even if its slightly longer. 08:02:58 Single term people seem to cost more to bribe over lol 08:03:46 even if it wouldn't change too much, it would be funny knowing that corruption would be at an all time expensive and that rich people would be wasting more worthless amounts of pennies lol 08:04:35 I'm highly skeptical that it would get any better. 08:04:52 It might even get worse. 08:05:25 maybe, it depends on whether voter influence or corrpution influence would become more expensive relative to the other 08:05:41 * maybe, it depends on whether voter influence or corrpution influence would become more expensive relative to the other I imagine, also taking into account that their own ideologies could take a bit more hold 08:06:45 If you really want to change the world, find ways to influence people's behavior through innovative economic offerings (whether they're open source/culture creations or business products and services). 08:07:31 Economic offerings succeed when they fill a need valued by people, even if the values they espouse and really think they hold are different. 08:07:51 When they start buying into those things, they change their behavior based on how those things change their lives. 08:08:07 When they change their behavior, they start having to change their beliefs to justify their behavior. 08:08:15 When enough of them change their beliefs, culture changes. 08:08:42 No political system can withstand a pervasive, opposed culture, short of "magical" ability to control people. 08:09:16 And I doubt they have more effective ways than news and internet. Correct me if I am wrong. 08:09:34 Sell something people want to buy. 08:09:39 Seriously. 08:10:00 Monero has more potential to change the political system for the better than a new voting system. 08:10:19 Monero makes it easier for people to buy things they couldn't before. 08:10:38 (assuming sufficient uptake for Monero) 08:11:03 Honestly, I would love to look more into open hardware design and see if I could influence thing more into that (pull a tesla and make them have attractive features), but given that the backdoors on modern devices are probably by tla's, I really don't feel like messing with them lol 08:12:06 yeah, I like the monero project a lot. I think it has a lot of potential to be a good currency in general 08:13:20 Monero also makes it easier for people to exclude the political system from its common benefits than something like a credit card. 08:14:49 Okay, it's quite late here. I need to get to bed. 08:14:51 g'night 08:14:54 Alright, night. 08:15:52 It is a shame that more legal things don't currently accept monero, it would be nice if someone could get anything shipped (somehow anonymously), using crypto lol. But, as a digital replacement for what people think cash is I am sure its nice. 08:16:38 * It is a shame that more legal things don't currently accept monero, it would be nice if someone could get anything shipped (somehow pseudonymously/anonymously) from some equivelant to amazon, using crypto lol. But, as a digital replacement for what people think cash is I am sure its nice. 08:26:56 Hello. I have downloaded and synced the monero-cli. Is there a cli tutorial that walks the user through the commands and their usage, with examples, etc.? I know the "help" command gives a brief description, but something more comprehensive would be nice. 08:33:06 mechanic41turk[m, https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/monero-wallet-cli.html 08:33:29 Thanks, Mochi103 I am seeing this now. 08:34:01 Most of what the wallet can do is way beyond what most people need to use it for. 08:34:02 hey ieatglueinthegulag good to see ya here 08:34:13 I see. 08:37:29 Mochi103: the sending monero part on the page you linked says, "You will need the standard address you want to send to (a long string starting with '4')," 08:37:44 Does that mean the cli can't send to subaddresses (starting with '8') 08:37:47 ? 08:39:14 Also, the same page mentions the user can adjust the RINGSIZE. Isn't the ringsize value standardized to 11 and enforced to be 11? 08:39:21 Looks out of date information. 08:49:13 You can send to any address 08:49:43 ringsize isn't needed... I don't even think it's user configurable anymore 08:50:10 yes... It's all very out of date 08:51:33 thanks Mochi103 08:51:51 btw, how can I see the stats for peers connected to my monero node from cli? 08:52:09 need to do that in the daemon 08:52:09 I want to know how many peers I am connected to, and how many peers are connected to my node. 08:53:16 type status in the daemon 08:53:32 or print_pl 08:53:49 https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference/ 08:54:04 thanks, checking that link now. 08:57:32 thanks, `print_cn` command did it. 08:58:11 btw, I haven't yet opened up my port for the incoming peer connections. However, I started the mining command for my daemon -- just to try and see. 08:58:34 Perchance, if I find a block, will the block I found be relayed, even though I don't have incoming connections to my local node. 08:58:34 ? 08:58:44 yes 08:59:06 thanks 09:05:11 wow monerodocs.org is a good resource. 09:06:57 People like this really give Monero a bad reputation :( https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/utdz795W/Screenshot_20210328-050622.jpg 09:11:04 * ieatglueinthegul uploaded an image: (65KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/halogen.city/1e332b38b7a01e26a3b76b5d0d581e95257b3de5/1616879470244.png > 09:11:23 leonardus see https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/m3htqy/somone_made_lots_of_bots_to_spam_other_subreddits/ 09:11:27 Cant wait till btc line go down and all the retarded maxis commit sudoku 09:15:55 :reply 09:16:01 whoops lol 09:17:26 yeah, in a way its stupid that people keep taking bitcoin seriously as a crypto when there are multiple cryptocurrencies that do literally the exact same thing but better in every way 09:17:49 wrinkle_hut[m]: do you have a macro for that? 09:18:13 the reply thing 09:18:31 I am on a terminal client. I accidently typed the shortcut : instead of /, because I was just using a program that does something similar but with :. 09:18:49 I really enjoy the troll's messages 09:18:50 I should probably configure my things to have more similar shortcuts and commands lol 09:19:12 I find myself scrolling upward through the logs just to find the troll's messages and read them 09:19:52 BTC is pure garbage, it was great work for a proof of concept project but it's time has passed 09:20:07 It's now running on pure hype, it's a classic buble 09:20:28 but... all cryptocurrency runs on hype 09:20:31 look at doge 09:20:37 (Well, also the atrocious state of the market due to the great money printing of 2020) 09:20:53 Yeah, I don't think that bitcoin was a bubble for a good chunk of its history, but now that it is abundantly clear that there is just far superior things as an actual currency it should be abandoned. 09:20:53 We're in a bubble ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk ~ 09:21:03 (monero is an exception I agree, but in my opinion that is due to adoption by onion services) 09:21:48 Well, while I think monero is one of the best currencies as an actual currency, I am just saying that the vast majority of cryptocurrencies are better than it as a currency. 09:22:16 I don't think it's an exception, although there def are a lot of scams in the cryptomarket and things bordering on being a scam I'm sure. 09:22:49 * I don't think it's an exception, although there def are a lot of scams in the cryptomarket and things bordering on being a scam I'm sure. (which ironically I heard monero used to be a proper scam before being taken in by the community, at least according to some rumors I heard and haven't cared to verify) 09:23:28 In bitcoins current state, its just a slow expensive non-anonymous relic of the past as a technological proof of concept 09:24:56 It also sucks that its accepted by so many palces 09:24:59 * It also sucks that its accepted by so many places 09:25:24 it would be very much more ideal for a universally accepted cryptocurrency to not have such insane gas fees. 09:25:38 * it would be very much more ideal for a universally accepted cryptocurrency to not have such insane gas fees at scale. 09:26:57 Well, let's evaluate the options then and actually do something about it. What can be done to get Monero accepted by more merchants? 09:27:57 Bytecoin was an outright scam. Monero is a fork of Bytecoin (or Cryptonote ? I forget). 09:29:02 moneromooo: my understanding was that bytecoin was the first implementation of the protocol cryptonote 09:29:39 source that Bytecoin was a scam? 09:30:28 Monero seems to be well accepted in illict trade markets, but, it very often isn't included in the list of legal things for reasons I cannot quite comprehend. 09:31:11 Honestly, the biggest dissapointment is how little FOSS donations accept it. I am not sure how one would go about solving that issue because I can't even comprehend why the issue is here to begin with at this point. 09:31:13 * Monero is a code fork of Bytecoin 09:31:14 Harder to integrate AFAICT. It's not a bitcoin fork like many. Though these days there's more non bitcoin stuff too, so who knows. 09:31:21 blockchain started from scratch 09:31:50 Thanks. I had a nagging feeling it might have been CN directly. Memory's going :D 09:31:51 if only we could get Snowden to talk about it 09:31:56 My only assumption is humans being humans and there isn't a rational reason it isn't being used more now, but, there would need to be more of a reason for them to use it now. 09:32:06 Yeah, a PR overhaul might be in the needs for humans being humans 09:32:20 charolastra: snowden is a proponent of Zcash for some bizzare reason 09:32:25 LOL 09:32:29 yeah ... 09:32:35 isn't that not private by default? 09:32:38 "bizarre reason" yeah, that's how $$$ are called now? 09:32:40 correct 09:32:46 I don't care about anything that isn't by default 09:32:54 Many (most ?) people seem to have the frame of mind that if they try and keep their privacy, they will be seen as criminals. So this becomes a vicious circle. 09:33:10 propping up anything that you need something technologically skilled to actually have any benefit in using is just scamming people. 09:33:25 Would they go to a toilet with glass walls on the central square of their town? 09:33:31 They don't care about privacy right? 09:33:39 It's just cultural. 09:34:07 if you're realistic, people really don't care about privacy if you look at their internet usage 09:34:36 i mean quite some dudes send dick pics to random girls 09:35:00 I agree with the earlier comment that people justify their actions after the fact 09:35:00 most people can't comprehend they were doing things wrong before, and instead simply explain it away. thats my way of looking at it at least 09:35:01 The trick is to look at what tesla was doing 09:35:01 tesla got popular not because its electric, but because they made a (in some ways) better product and marketed it well. 09:35:24 My daemon is outputting this warning from time to time: `WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received`. What does this mean in layman's terms? 09:36:01 FUK has bееn intеnsеly hostilе to Monеro for ovеr 4 yеars. Making minеrs for Monеro, making a pool for Monеro, making codе that Monеro copiеd, not using bugs to stеal millions from еxchangеs. Wow. Such grеat hostility. 09:36:03 It means your DNS is borked, 09:36:03 Feel bork inc.® https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muLAN-kP5pE 09:36:45 moneromooo: what do you mean by borked? 09:36:47 So, I imagine what Monero needs is a benefit to use for the average person with "nothing to hide" 09:37:14 wrinkle_hut[m]: It already does have the benefit of transaction speed and fees compared to Bitcoin. 09:37:17 It already has basically no gas fees and the transaction speeds aren't the worst. 09:37:33 gas? 09:37:42 broken 09:37:44 another term for transaction speeds 09:37:51 * another term for transaction cost 09:37:57 Are you a mETH head? 09:38:11 moneromooo: why is DNS broken? I am able to connect to the websites on my browser. 09:38:30 it's just the term I have heard used for transaction fees in most crypto communities. 09:38:44 If it means something more specific than I realized, please clarify. 09:38:57 It's an Ethereum term. 09:39:04 wrinkle_hut: gas is specific to ethereum. 09:39:08 So, ethereum is actually two cryptocurrencies ? 09:39:10 Who is FUK? 09:39:11 just call it tx fee 09:39:21 it's really specific for ethereum. cause you need it for the smart contracts to work 09:39:27 No moneromooo, VET is though. 09:39:31 Ah, thanks for the clarifcation. I have heard people use gas outside of that context and thank fucking god its not as much of a term as I thought lol 09:39:41 regardless 09:39:44 That's some dude who could never interact for long without being abusive and is behinfd all the spam AFAIK. 09:39:46 calling it gas is stupid 09:40:12 ikr? 09:40:14 I see 09:40:16 VetinariCoin ? 09:40:28 So, the only thing I can think of is 09:40:35 if more things start accepting monero to begin with 09:40:52 maybe if there was a donation fund set up towards convincing stores to accept monero? 09:41:08 Bribing's never a good idea. 09:41:21 Is there any legal ways of doing that? 09:41:22 Giving people stuff for free makes what you're giving them more worthless. Look at Electroneum. 09:41:32 I wasn't suggesting that. 09:41:33 Well, s/never/seldom/ 09:41:34 wrinkle_hut: I think we should focus on internet based businesses taking monero first. Meatspace can wait. 09:41:52 And afaik, most of the internet services (vps, vpn, email, etc.) already take accept xmr. 09:41:57 Perhaps what is needed is a front man 09:42:00 We just need to get Elon to start accepting XMR for Teslas. 09:42:06 bruh 09:42:10 someone who accepts monero in exhcange for paying for meatspace services for you 09:42:11 Teslas and FOSS donation funds. 09:42:21 i've tried to offer xMR as a payment methode for stuff (even with a 20% discount). people then were telling me they can't be bothered and will even stop buying ... 09:42:30 lol 09:42:31 wrinkle_hut: more and more FOSS coders are setting up a monero address for donations. 09:42:38 charolastra: what service do you offer/ 09:42:46 products 09:42:59 that's good. I wanted to donate to more than one FOSS group and non of them accepted monero, so I simply didn't donate. 09:43:09 you mean stuff you are willing to talk about or...? 09:43:19 no :p 09:43:27 thats very stupid lol 09:43:29 wrinkle_hut: we are still early. stack those piconeros. 09:43:37 I was considering starting a monero only service so I was curious 09:44:05 Yknow 09:44:10 I had a dream the other night. 09:44:20 here we go... 09:44:22 Mochi103: I think Elon would hurt the public image of Monero. 09:44:35 He thinks Dogecoin is valuable, or at least pushes it as such. 09:44:42 leonardus, it was just a joke 09:44:46 If he starts pushing Monero, people might start questioning that too 09:44:57 Mochi103: maybe, but people didn't take it as such. 09:44:57 do people question dogecoin because elon pushes it? 09:44:58 Where someone made a cryptocurrency that was fast and nearly free like monero or even nano, but somehow was able to swap with every other crypto to be a sort of truly decentralized and anonymous exchange. 09:45:05 everything elon touches turns to gold 09:45:20 PapuaHardyNet: what I'm saying is people question Elon because he pushes Dogecoin 09:45:34 A coin that was literally created to be effectively valueless 09:45:38 man Elon is antifragile 09:45:54 charolastra: he still gotta deliver on that full self driving tho 09:46:03 You can't control who supports you and is vocal about it. 09:46:06 Elon is elon lol 09:46:09 he's surely making money out of his shilling 09:46:22 It's fine, we've got McAfee on our side 09:46:31 snorts 09:46:33 LOL, really? 09:50:46 https://invidious.xyz/watch?v=FnKrMKo_WlU 09:54:55 I especially love his reaction to the bitcoin privacy features comment around the 8th minute 10:13:14 hilarious 😂 11:47:56 Never listened to McAfee talk before 11:54:33 I have bitcoin on coinbase that I want to swap for XMR... I know I can buy on kraken but I don't want to open another account with a KYC exchange... 11:56:04 I have an empty electrum bitcoin wallet on my pc. So, here's what I'm thinking... Send all coinbase BTC to my PC's wallet. Use PC wallet to buy XMR. Sound like a plan? or am I an idiot if I do this? 11:57:01 do you have somebody in mind to trade with? 11:57:07 or are you going to trade on bisq? 11:57:14 otherwise i don't understand your 'plan' 12:01:36 No I was planning to buy XMR from an exchange. Probably tradeogre 12:02:53 I guess I should just ask this: how to I convert the BTC from my coinbase account into XMR? 12:04:52 A cheaper solution would be to convert your btc to ltc on coinbase, and then look for a website offerint ltc-xmr swaps 12:05:02 you want to exchange to XMR with electrum? 12:05:07 Works the same way, but much cheaper fees 12:05:30 (Plus there's also an electrum-ltc wallet) 12:05:34 tradeogre now supports USDT 12:06:19 (not that I care much for Tether... just saying) 12:07:17 So sell your btc for usdt and transfer the usdt to Tradeogre... buy XMR with USDT 12:12:03 I can't convert to USDT on coinbase. Why should I convert to something like LTC before buying XMR? Can't I give tradeogre my coinbase wallet address and just buy XMR directly with BTC? 12:15:34 Sorry I'm cluless on this stuff. When I searched online I found services to swap BTC > XMR but that seemed unnecessary 12:16:41 The real state of Crypto Adoption here... 12:17:45 You have to move your own currency around maquinisto. 12:19:23 Mochi103, I understand. Just looking for advice on how to get this done at the lowest cost 12:20:13 which exchanges sell xmr for bnb? 12:20:17 maquinisto, just look at which coins coinbase/tradeogre support... buy the coin you choose on coibase and transfer it to tradeogre 12:20:27 want to buy some xmr :) 12:20:48 uhhh... questi... maybe Binance? 12:25:53 Mochi103 your logic is undeniable :D 12:26:26 Are these sell signals? 12:29:41 thank you Mochi103 12:30:00 I figured it was that simple. Just wanted to make sure. 12:35:34 apart binance? 12:35:34 :) 12:35:50 or ok how to buy xmr then 12:37:09 Litebit supports BNB, but not XMR. 12:37:36 https://coincodex.com/crypto/binance-coin/exchanges/ 12:38:41 So many people con't even use a search engine... How can we ever expect they'll be able to use cryptocurrencies? 14:34:07 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620459189097201669/825739531796873256/3b1c56f.jpg 16:52:06 Mochi103, it's not that people can't use search engines. There's an excess of information and its hard to know who to trust. Especially now that more people are jumping in, others are looking to profit from ignorance. 16:55:25 This channel is run by and for people interested in supporting or using monero. So I tend to trust advice I get here more than some exchange or blog, even though you are all strangers to me. 16:56:22 Very true. 16:57:48 .isittrue 17:06:32 maquinisto: That's a reasonable approach, as long as you keep in mind that there's always the possibility of someone trolling you. 17:06:51 New video by a big YouTuber about Monero: 17:06:51 https://youtu.be/O58STfvxZnY 17:09:40 I find it a bit frustrating that local-whatever sites for exchanging cryptocurrency are often anti-Tor and, in addition, sometimes prone to blocking the US -- and, on top of that, are largely useless for basically anything in the US that isn't adjacent to a coastal area. 17:09:59 At least, that's my impression so far. 17:11:51 If only one of you gave Papa ChooChoo some TLC when I wrote a faster miner, instead of ignoring him, things could have happened differently https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5lsfgt/_/dbz0jnp/ 17:18:59 On top of everything else, roadtripping (which I enjoy) doesn't seem like the greatest idea right now, given the state of the world. (Flying is an even worse idea.) 17:23:03 Thus, changing the definition of "local" for local-cryptocurrency sites wouldn't help much. 19:02:32 If I want to build a branch other than master . . . how the hell do I do that? Even `git pull --all` won't give me anything but master. 19:03:16 git co 19:05:04 apotheon: git checkout origin/release-v0.17 19:05:28 or u might not have that alias yea `git checkout` 19:05:34 $ git checkout release-0.17 19:05:35 error: pathspec 'release-0.17' did not match any file(s) known to git 19:06:02 same with "origin/" included, of course 19:06:04 Copy/paste. 19:06:20 wtf 19:06:28