00:00:38 I don't think I've ever come across anyone else who thought of that idea. 00:00:54 the idea exists before crypto 00:01:03 . . . or, more specifically, who provide resources for the good of the community. 00:01:17 Sure, but I'm talking specfically about the characteristics of cryptocurrency mining. 00:01:26 oh 00:01:39 yeah I agree then 00:02:09 i like the idea of being able to just join any crypto project and become a node operator of some sorts 00:02:27 A straight-up PoW mining operation proves availability and application of computational resources for the community-support task of writing transactions to the shared ledger. 00:02:49 but tell me, if I run a monero node without mining 00:03:03 is this then good or not good or indifferent to the community at large 00:03:24 If you start getting into cryptocurrencies that provide other services on top of the blockchain's ledger functionality, there's an even sharper reputational component, as in the case of Filecoin rewarding not just ledger maintenance, but also provision of storage resources. 00:03:45 It's good. 00:04:00 i ran a storj node as an experiment, similar to the filecoin idea 00:04:14 The more (even non-mining) nodes there are that are not owned by some allied set of operators, the more resistant the network becomes to various forms of attack. 00:05:37 Independently mining increases the network health more than just running a non-mining node, for some minimum level of mining resources, but just running a full node provides some network benefit. 00:05:52 allright 00:06:25 . . . plus having your own, well-secured node also improves your own wallet's privacy characteristics, and allowing others to access that node as their backend at least makes it easier for them to find nodes to use if they don't want to run their own. 00:06:36 i like your point on mining, i haven't given it too much thought as it seems to me to become profitable you also need to do a quite sharp upfront investment 00:06:53 (i run my own node exactly for the added privacy ;)) 00:07:23 Yeah, that might be the case. There are ways to improve that investment calculation, but sometimes people forget to count various factors when deciding it's worthwhile as a matter of profit. 00:08:09 For instance, if you plan to build a gaming rig and only mine when you aren't gaming, its operation as a mining rig subsidizes the gaming system cost. 00:08:11 to me its not clear yet if I could enter "the game" with like 1 miner 00:08:45 . . . but if you weren't going to build that gaming system in the first place, you're just buying an expensive new hobby (the gaming system) that isn't *quite* as expensive as it would've been if you weren't also mining. 00:08:54 exactly 00:09:20 If you want to get into mining with only one mining rig, you pretty much must join a mining pool, as I understand it. To contribute to network health, though, you should probably join a smaller mining pool. 00:09:23 also, different projects have different requirements 00:09:32 eg filecoin vs xmr 00:09:35 Building up smaller mining pools helps offset the centralization effects of the biggest pools. 00:10:00 With XMR, as I understand it, you want a high end CPU, probably Ryzen right now. 00:10:06 yeah i'd be happy to start a new pool 00:10:16 I don't know what filecoin requires, except that it involves some kind of proof of stake if I recall correctly. 00:10:18 only one problem, no ffn clue how to go about such thing 00:10:43 If you get a high-end gaming rig that you plan to use in off-time as a miner in mining pools, you could probably do well for yourself mining XMR on the CPU and ETH on the GPU. 00:10:53 it will change due to various factors but currently you will receive on average 0.00036 monero per day per 1000 H/s 00:11:37 Starting a new pool seems hard. You're probably better off picking one with https://townforge.net/cgi-bin/choose_pool?raw or from someone's personal recommendation of a smaller pool. 00:11:59 nioc: What's "H/s"? 00:12:04 alright, and how should i thing of 1000H/s (as in 1 intel-i5 or .. ) 00:12:10 thing/think* 00:12:18 to make it more tangible :) 00:12:22 apotheon: hashes per second 00:12:25 ah 00:12:40 it's the output the miner will show 00:13:25 I wonder how one estimates hashes per second for a given CPU. 00:13:41 that's 35usd / year , more or less for 1000H/s 00:13:56 monerobenchmark dot com 00:14:19 Does that test your CPU, or just give info based on telling it what CPU you have, or what? 00:14:27 I guess I could just check the site. 00:14:28 apotheon: there is a benchmark site with that info 00:14:44 oh iSlo 00:14:51 bbl 00:14:53 monerobenchmark.com doesn't seem to exist 00:15:33 .info 00:15:33 apotheon: Monero (XMR) • Ver: 0.17.1.7-release • Blocks: 2330839 • Diff: 270.03B • Conns: 12 • Last: ≈0.46 min • Avg: ≈3.31 min • Confirm: ≈5 min 00:15:37 oops 00:15:52 I mean "it seems to be monerobenchmarks.info". 00:16:01 there is this one but you will not hit the highest rates for each cpu 00:16:08 right 00:16:14 https://xmrig.com/benchmark 00:16:28 what would be the least amount of H/s to make sure you're not mining without ever hitting a reward? 00:16:29 dot info... that one, my bad 00:16:43 some people ultra tune for those benchmarks 00:17:33 eventually gonna need some tuning 00:18:43 If pool mining it doesn't mattter how much h/s you have. The reward will be proportionally distributed to everyone who contributed to that block 00:18:58 So . . . *maybe* about sixteen cents a day for my laptop CPU. 00:19:16 (That's lower than what the benchmarks suggest. I knocked a bit off the top.) 00:19:18 and if you'd go solo? just curious actually 00:19:19 apotheon: cpu??? 00:20:12 Zichi: Yeah? 00:20:22 Monero's CPU-mined. 00:20:25 setsimmons: thanks - is that the project you recently posted about with the various self-hosted services? 00:20:38 *sethsimmons ^ 00:20:38 That seems like a lot, even so. 00:21:27 That's given eighteen samples, though, so it's probably one of the more accurate hashrates on that site. 00:22:03 Solo you'd get proportionally to network total hashrate in the long run 00:22:35 But you might never hit one block ever 00:22:49 Or get one very quickly 00:22:55 If I just take the number directly off the site, I get 0.1711152 (given an assumption of 250 USD per XMR). 00:22:56 Lottery basically 00:22:58 wait 00:23:00 That seems high. 00:23:05 Wasn't it more like 150 last I checked? 00:23:20 I'll just check current rates. 00:23:34 Oh, actually it's 260 per. 00:24:00 so 0.177959808 USD per day 00:24:05 That's . . . quite a bit. 00:24:50 about 65 USD/year, given 0.00036 XMR/1000H/s 00:25:42 That'd only take about twenty years to pay off my laptop. 00:25:59 . . . and I haven't even factored in the cost of electricity. 00:26:08 yeah it's more profitable to buy and hold xmr :p 00:26:13 yep 00:26:48 . . . but it's a way to (slowly) acquire XMR from Fiat in a way that's reasonably private (if set up properly). 00:27:13 Given my laptop usage habits, though, I should cut my numbers by about 75%. 00:27:42 then I'd rather look into an efficient setup and join a pool :) 00:27:52 Thus, it'd actually take about eighty years to pay off my laptop. 00:28:18 I'd get a lot of value out of the laptop just by using it, though, when it's not mining. 00:28:21 . . . so there's that. 00:42:40 The benchmark for the fastest processor on that list suggests almost ten bucks a day. 00:43:12 (USD at current exchange rate with XMR) 00:43:41 actually 0.0366494292 XMR/day 00:45:46 That seems to be a 5K USD CPU, though. 00:46:33 oh, probably more than that 00:46:37 I looked at the wrong price. 00:47:22 I'm not sure what that top CPU is supposed to be. 00:48:09 The second-highest hash rate on the site is a 5K USD CPU. 00:50:18 i just looked at a random pool 00:51:23 if my estimate is correct you could earn 0.1 xmr / day on avg using 1KH/s 00:51:45 pretty close 00:51:56 thats 25 usd / day, not bad 00:52:12 You made a mistake somewhere 00:52:28 probably, it's looking too good :p 00:52:35 .1 xmr = $25 00:52:41 oh, yeah, that's not right 00:53:19 0.0366494292 00:54:16 for just over 1KH/s 00:54:30 i was calculating based on a pool 00:54:49 i took the pool's paymouts over the last 7 days 00:55:02 shit 00:55:05 took the average 00:55:05 I can't math today. 00:55:30 then looked at the top wallets and their contributed hashrate 00:56:40 With the number that I gave earlier you can figure it out 00:56:48 1 kH is 0.0003 XMR/day (9 cents) 00:57:48 I was thinking of MH for some reason. 00:58:11 I dunno how the pool turns 1KH into 25 USD, though. 00:58:16 1 MH is 0.346 XMR ($90) 00:58:21 https://xmr.pool.gntl.co.uk/#/payments -> if you look at the payouts during the last 7 days you get 8.5 xmr 00:58:37 zo that's ~ 1.2 xmr / day the pool distributes 00:58:45 or maybe I was thinking of 100KH. I don't recall what number I had. 00:58:53 ah 00:58:57 then you look at the top miners -> https://xmr.pool.gntl.co.uk/#/topminers 00:59:21 AH, WELL 00:59:25 https://xmr.pool.gntl.co.uk/#/blocks 00:59:33 looks like they have been very lucky with blocks 00:59:42 those calculations I gave are just averages 01:00:13 say : 1.3 KH/s 0.06% *****hHGre -> so my estimate was 0.06% * 1.2 xmr / day = ~ 0.1 xmr / day (a little less) 01:00:15 wow 01:00:20 super-lucky pool 01:00:36 is my reasoning correct? 01:01:47 They "should" get 5.56 XMR per week with their current total hashrate, instead they got ~8.8, a luck factor of 1.6x, or 60% more than expected 01:02:36 oh i see 01:02:51 that says 13 kH not 1.3 01:03:10 ah oops 01:03:28 no ? 01:03:33 or sorry I was looking further up the list 01:03:54 indeed, 13KH is 0.5% 01:04:18 but if you look at payouts from the 7 days before the last 7 days 01:04:26 does monerod background mine only after it has synced 100% 01:04:27 rewards were only 3.5 xmr 01:04:48 swrangsar: only if you configure it to do that 01:05:06 0.06% is actually 0.0006 so 0.0006 * 1.2 xmr / day = ~ 0.001 NOT 0.1, does that help? 01:05:19 You did 0.06% as 0.06 instead of 0.0006 01:05:25 haha true 01:05:26 monerod used up all my 50gb 4G data limit in 4 hrs 01:05:44 LyzaL: thanks for pointing out the mistake 01:05:48 you bet 01:06:41 swrangsar: That seems suboptimal. Was this part of initial sync? 01:07:36 LyzaL: it still seems a good venture 01:07:37 Considering the size of the blockchain, that wouldn't surprise me at all. 01:07:50 K3LV1n: apotheon: this was the initial sync, but wasn't it supposed to use only about 30gb 01:07:55 k3LV1n: . . . if you can build a rig to hit that hashrate. 01:08:21 Isn't the Monero blockchain rather bigger than that? 01:08:28 wait 01:08:42 I should remind myself how big it is before I say that. 01:09:00 around 100Gb 01:10:05 I think the blockchain was ~50gb when I first started and that took a long while to sync can't imagine how long 100gb would take 01:10:38 how long 01:10:39 does monerod not sync a smaller pruned blockchain 01:11:16 Ah, I did recall correctly -- about 100GB. 01:11:38 swrangsar: If you tell it to used a pruned blockchain, yeah. 01:11:43 s/used/use/ 01:11:56 If not, it goes full-blockchain. 01:14:19 k3LV1n: how do i tell it to mine in the bg even before syncing 100% the first time? 01:17:51 i don't know if that's possible, never tried it. to just start mining regardless consult monerod --help 01:21:41 anyone here heard of haven protocol before? i just ran into it researching mining pools 01:21:56 they say on their website its based on monero 01:22:30 swrangsar: data limit |= size of blockchain 01:22:53 there are many coins based on monero 01:23:30 there are over 8k coins, most btc based 01:23:54 yeah i don't know about all 8k :p 01:24:27 most exist to obtain $$$$ 01:24:33 of course 01:25:05 but the question that comes to mind 01:25:27 are there monero based projects that are also supported/endorsed within the monero community? 01:26:18 not really 01:26:20 ProjectEpsilon: the sync might have happened faster. had already slept with the sync kept running. 01:26:21 something that extends monero in a way that monero itself couldn't do ? 01:27:24 How does wownero (unsure of official capitalization) fit into things? 01:27:34 Is that a testnet thing? 01:28:00 apotheon: it was created as a way of taking the steam out of a scam fork 01:28:22 I supported it just because of that 01:28:41 it was expected to die but crypto rarely dies 01:28:52 I see. 01:28:55 people are actually working on it 01:29:08 a joke that turned into a real thing, sorta 01:29:15 what does it bring that is different? 01:29:23 just fun 01:30:19 they have implemented things early that were scheduled to go into monero 01:30:30 in that way it is testing 01:30:57 they can do that cause no big deal if we break something 02:21:12 is it ok to copy the same monerod.core file across OSes like OpenBSD and linux? 02:21:38 using rsync. 02:32:36 openbsd 02:32:52 OpenBSD 03:36:18 is it advisable to solo mine monero using monero daemon? 03:39:33 is it profitable to solo mine using monerod, esp. on a slower OS like openbsd? 06:06:18 swrangsar: Whether you mine in a pool or solo has no effect on long term profit other than fee taken by the pool. The barrier to entry is quite low, you can easily try yourself and put the hashrate you get into a calculator. 06:07:55 unfortunately that dude left a while ago 07:31:07 is it profitable to solo mine using monerod, esp. on a slower OS like openbsd? 07:40:47 Hey, I can start the mining on the daemon from the cli wallet, which will pass my primary address to the daemon for rewards. Then, I can quit/exit the cli wallet, right? no case of daemon forgetting my reward addy? 07:45:48 mechanic41turk[m, correct 07:46:00 thanks Mochi101: 07:46:23 alright, mining on my cpu. doing my part! 07:46:34 Monero is Love 07:51:46 Why not join a pool, solo mining is practically useless unless you have some very very hefty hardware 07:53:24 ieatglueinthegulag: I will probably join a pool. For now, I am monkeying around solo. 07:57:27 mechanic41turk: Me too. A whopping 815 H/s. 07:57:54 picoq: I have a smokin' hot 1k H/s 07:58:14 Oops! Just hit 1002 07:58:20 Now I'm rich 07:58:47 Right? 08:00:11 So every 9 years or so I should find a block 08:00:13 some [UNKNOWN-AMOUNT] has been sent your way. 08:02:21 btw, cake wallet on fdroid wen? 08:02:31 I remember this was rumored a few weeks ago 08:02:55 Hmm. Syncing new block. 08:03:04 Clearly I'm not the winner. 10:03:18 hi 10:03:43 hi 10:04:02 hi 10:04:37 das ist gut 10:05:31 wir verstehen kein Deutsch hier 10:07:16 Lügen! 10:08:27 warum nicht? 10:11:15 Hier wird nur Angelsächsisch gesprochen 10:12:01 ah! angelsächsisch ja ja 10:13:02 hehehe 10:14:47 das ist "okay" angelsächsisch... 10:18:17 how things? 10:22:08 what's up? 10:50:36 blood pressure? 10:50:39 covid rate? 10:56:56 meh 10:57:37 you think that's going to scare us? 12:06:31 Could someone explain to me like I'm 12? .. How does monero work? I understand as it doesn't reveal the identities involved in each transaction. 12:06:55 But without this information, how does it determine if one account has remaining asset to trade? 12:08:16 You use the secret key of the output. The secret key also generates a key image, which gets published with the spend, and may only be used once. 12:08:36 So you prove you know the secret key, and you can only use it once. 12:09:03 The recipient can derive the new secret key, but the sender cannot (as it depends on the recipient's secret keys). 12:09:36 Hmm it makes more sense, slightly. 12:09:38 "Zero to Monero" is said to be very good at explaining how Monero works. 12:09:44 cool! 12:10:15 Was about to ask. 12:10:50 May be a separate question.. 12:11:05 On monero's official site, it says that there are >30 contributors working on. 12:11:18 But what should be done and why should it be maintained? 12:11:34 I mean.. having new features coming up makes me feel a bit nervous. 12:11:48 I don't want to lose my monero's validity after some major updates. 12:11:53 What should be done... making it better, more private, more secure, more easy to use, faster, smaller, etc. 12:12:19 It should be maintained to fix bugs and keep it working with new versions of other software. 12:13:03 Your monero will always be spendable, and if by some bug it's not, it will be restored later. Or if that's somwhow not the case, I expect there'd be a lot of warning. 12:13:27 ie, very early monero can still be spent, and it does not use bulletproofs, nor ringct. 12:13:30 errr.. im new to cryptos.. any crypto that failed this way before? 12:13:48 ah i see 12:14:19 hello 12:14:19 Yes, monero had for a very short time a minor version where some coins could not be spent. This got fixed as soon as someone noticed. 12:14:39 It was a corner case, so did not get spotted in time. 12:14:41 Hello melona 12:14:58 melona: hi 12:15:01 Otherwise, there are some coins which do this, sometimes on purpose. 12:15:28 They usually couch this as "I'm making a new coin and you can swap the old for the new for a limited time". 12:16:29 zcash has a builtin system where if you're late to swap, you've lost your coins - which should not be happening in hteory, but can happen if there was an inflation bug. 12:16:40 how much byte add add_aux_pow on tx 12:17:02 33 I think. 12:17:06 Maybe 34. 12:17:28 tx_extra.resize(tx_extra.size() + 3 + 32); 12:17:49 tx_extra[start_pos] = 33; 12:18:17 one byte right? 12:18:26 moneromooo: ooo.. 12:18:35 OK, sounds like 35 then :) 12:18:52 Is there any stablecoin whose privacy feature is as close as Monero's? 12:18:53 Oh yes, I forgot about depth. 12:19:08 One main reason I haven't start playing is the votality.. 12:19:57 I think I remember someone mentioning trying to make a stable coin from a monero base. Can't recall who/what though. 12:20:17 Just remember such a coin's only as stable as the trust in whoever's making it stable. 12:21:39 moneromooo: yeah.. hmm but on the otherhand, i still have to trust monero's makers, right? 12:22:12 Also, probably the biggest downside risk to monero is "govts gonna ban" due to it preserving users' privacy. If a stable coin has privacy, it acquires the same downside risk. 12:22:54 Yes, but less, since we don't pretend to keep some exchange rate stable, usually by a claim we will redeem for fiat on demand. 12:22:56 but theoretically they cannot do anything, no? 12:23:26 Govts ? They can do pretty much anything. They have lots of money, guns, and lawyers. 12:23:51 But you can trade anonymously online.. so how do they catch? 12:24:21 The common way is to make something illegal with high penalties, and make highly visible examples. 12:25:01 This has happened in the US, not for privacy, but for securities fraud. 12:25:09 nij: they make the on and off ramps difficult.. So you might be able to trade it online but you will have a hard time changing it into the government's currency. 12:25:26 Various coins got... well, I guess they got to pay a small portion of their profits as a fee^H^H^Hfine. 12:25:53 they can't stop murder, even with a death sentence on it 12:25:54 practically they must confiscate computers 12:26:59 Mochi101: i see ....... 12:28:21 Anyway, some govts might or might not. At some point they've got stop taking more and more of our privacy, right ? There's gotta be an end *somewhere* 12:30:11 Anyway, I think it's unlikely it'll be made illegal. It'd be like making window blinds illegal. 12:31:01 I expect there'll be more and more spying on, reporting requirements, and various laws will get a "using cryptocurrency for the crime" an extra penalty clause. 12:31:16 :| 12:32:10 And the more they spy, the more we try to keep away from the creeps... So much work spent just because creeps gonna be creeps... 12:33:36 weird 12:33:49 at the end they might just put monero developers into jail.. 12:33:50 :( 12:34:20 "Anyone who contributed to monero, in any loose sense, are subjected to be put in jail!" 12:34:35 Well, we might end up in a worldwide dictatorship, sure. But if we get to that, that might be the least of our worries tbh. 12:35:23 I mean, surely you can't imagine a govt enacting this kind of thing and not having done a lot of really nasty stuff already, right ? 12:35:47 there must be some countries having that kind of govs ;) 12:36:04 Sure, and I think you missed my point... 12:36:32 another ques... if the encryption algorithm is broken suddenly, how will monero transit to a new algorithm that hasn't been resolved? 12:36:50 Which is, to make it plain, that a fair bit of the "regulations are coming" FUD is about imagining something really bad in monero's case while pretending everything else somehow doesn't get as bad. 12:37:24 Depends how broken. If broken in a cryptographic sense, it'll flow with research and review. 12:37:42 If broken as in anyone with a GPU can spend anyone's money, it's toast. 12:38:25 (same thing for any other cryptocurrency fwiw) 12:38:30 Uh.. 12:38:32 I see. 12:38:41 One day it will break, I think :( 12:38:56 There's never going to be a proof saying one algorithm is unbreakable. 12:39:32 And really, that elliptic curve based algorithms are "safer" is only because no one has known an effective attack (classical or quantum) 12:40:22 It's not because that it's intrinsically safer (afaik). 12:41:26 Well, they do allow a similar strength for a lot smaller keys. 12:42:02 ... I guess that doesn't really answer the point :) 12:43:47 Do they use multiple encryption? I don't know much about this, but something like a mix of RSA and an EC-based one. 12:44:14 I imagine this will be much safer, as if one of them is broken, there's time for the developers to be aware. 12:44:17 Monero ? No. Other coins ? Maybe some. 12:47:17 Funny enough, elliptic-curve is actually more susceptible to Shor's algorithm attack on quantum computer than even regular RSA 12:50:10 keo[m]: ? what do you mean? 12:50:32 Isn't Shor's algorithm a direct quantum-computer solution to regular RSA? 12:50:45 And afaik there's no known for ec-based ones..? 12:51:14 It could be also applied to other asymmetrical cyphers 12:51:48 Hmm 12:52:22 I feel like I am able to follow any step in Shor's algorithm, but I haven't been able to know the big principle behind in order to generalize that to other asymm cyphers. 12:52:32 s/any/each/ 12:55:05 Source: https://www.f5.com/labs/articles/threat-intelligence/rsa-in-a-pre-post-quantum-computing-world 12:55:32 They discuss EEC too 13:04:13 Here's the paper on how to modify Shor's algorithm for EEC for interested: https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/598.pdf 13:28:17 keo[m]: it's a bit too technical for me :-( 13:28:24 how do i tap into this kind of paper? 13:28:41 (i'm not afraid of hard math, but i need to pick up many terms as it seems) 13:28:55 Hahaha, I only read abstract and conclusion 13:29:24 keo that's it, i cannot even understand the abstract 13:29:24 It's over my head too 13:29:36 it's ok, being able to understand the abstract is a huge leap 13:29:50 could you share what you understand from the abstract? 13:29:56 i will try to glue the pieces together 13:30:23 even if it's just a tiny part of the abstract 13:30:25 it would be valuable 13:31:00 "the number of qubits required to tackle elliptic curves is less than for attacking RSA, suggesting that indeed ECC is an easier target than RSA." 13:48:39 Well, yeah, that's the main point i got. They also give estimates to complexity of algorithm in terms of qbits and logic gates (Toffils). The fact that it's linear complexity in qbits is problematic because we can't just increase key size in ECC then. It's "only" 2330 qbits for P-256 curve 14:54:34 is it a wanted feature to receive no error if from the cli wallet is provided a wrong password on new output received request? 14:55:06 it'll just ignore it silently 14:55:20 you have to type "refresh" again and it'll ask for password again 14:58:08 sech1: Yes, I know.. I just find odd that no wrong password error is showed 14:59:03 .soon 14:59:03 mfoolb: ≈$0.0716 • ≈ value of: 1 SOON • Source: cmc/ccc/altm 14:59:37 .balance 14:59:37 mfoolb: • Your balance is: 0.00618854 XMR (≈1.64 USD) 15:07:34 .balance 15:07:34 netrik182: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command. 15:07:34 netrik182: • Your balance is: 0 XMR 15:09:18 .xmr 15:09:18 xrv0[m]: You must have bot account & be logged in 15:09:53 .bal 15:09:53 shillo: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command. 15:09:53 shillo: 0 XMR 15:09:58 f 15:13:33 .balance 15:13:33 sech1: • Your balance is: 0.00454065 XMR (≈1.19 USD) 15:13:55 nice 15:36:48 Hello guys, I noticed when you create a wallet, it generates two files. One file that is just the name of the wallet, and another that is walletname.keys - can anyone explain to me the use of these two files? 15:37:20 And if I wanted to transfer my wallet to another pc, would I need to copy both of these files? 15:37:26 /quit 15:37:26 15:37:30 I was exploring this very question in the WSB room last night. 15:41:24 They file with .keys at the end contains your secret keys. The other contains various data cached from scanning the chain, as well as tx secret keys from txes you sent, tx notes you may have written, address labels, pregenerated subaddresses, etc. 15:43:11 So if I were to just copy the .keys file I would have access to my XMR but no information on anything else correct? 15:43:22 Yes. 15:43:37 Cool thanks, does the .keys file also store the wallet password? 15:43:45 No. Nothing stores it. 15:44:04 moneromooo: are these two files encrypted at rest? 15:44:04 so if someone stole my .keys file its game over 15:44:08 Yes. 15:44:20 dang ok thanks for the help 15:44:23 If your password is shit, yes. 15:44:35 moneromooo: yes to what? sorry about the ambiguity. 15:44:46 Yes to "mechanic41turk[m> moneromooo: are these two files encrypted at rest?" 15:44:59 moneromooo: got it. thanks. 15:45:02 The KDF is cryptonight so you can't try that many passwords in a second. 15:45:52 ok so even if someone stole .keys if the password was good it would be hard to steal the money 15:45:59 Yes. 15:46:32 That's really cool, I'm really liking Monero so far it seems like a very good project 15:46:49 I think so too :) 15:47:16 go figure lol 17:03:20 are there any alternative to monero.fail with some more detailed stats? 17:03:35