00:00:03 <jj1013[m]> <gdktixhfjq "As to Monero, I would encourage ">  *losing
00:00:39 <nioc> it a bot
00:00:46 <nioc> it's
00:08:51 <volantaryism1[m]> The person spamming that is either dumb or some monero supporter trying to do some reverse psycology cause a messages like that only strengthens a communitys will
00:10:29 <endor00[m]> Definitely not a monero supporter lol
00:14:51 <fluffypony> Inge-: nothing's changed about Tari's design and its connection to Monero, except the switch from pure merge-mining to the hybrid merge-mining (due to the attack surface the former introduces, and which was discussed extensively in #tari-dev over a few months)
00:22:07 <NormieJoe[m]> Why is Monero the only crypto rising since yesterday while everything else is dropping?
00:22:46 <coinfood[m]> Maybe people have started to care about privacy.
00:23:32 <NormieJoe[m]> <coinfood[m] "Maybe people have started to car"> I am just thinking whether some whales know something we do not?
00:25:36 <nioc> and then people complain when everything goes up but monero :)
00:26:09 <nioc> I guess lament is a better word
00:26:58 <volantaryism1[m]> coinfood: whales securing btc gains from tax in monero is common theory chucked around by monero traders
00:27:08 <volantaryism1[m]> I have doubts about that tho
00:49:41 <vtnerd> selsta ndorf : yes, DoS stuff is at the core of tor de-anon. Might be useful everytime there is a DoS like in dec/jan to do a psa about rolling new tor/i2p identities
00:51:47 <vtnerd> the one advantage is that DoS is often noticeable
01:21:53 <yanmaani> fluffypony: link to IRC logs with attack surface of pure merge mining?
01:30:24 <privategreenland> Is Tari a shitcoin?
01:30:34 <privategreenland> A pump and dump?
01:34:21 <floam412> it's not even out yet privategreen
01:34:26 <floam412> it's still in beta testing
02:12:25 <tomri[m]> hi
02:12:38 <Bigboiimike> Hi
02:18:31 <fibonacci> !balance
02:41:05 <DisBotXMR> <TrooperZ> who is isabella?
02:44:01 <selsta> https://www.cypherstack.com/isabella-monero-girl-stickers.html
02:45:25 <fluffypony> yanmaani: https://rfc.tari.com/RFC-0131_Mining.html
02:47:18 <fluffypony> yanmaani: also some of it got written under the "attack vectors" section here: https://tlu.tarilabs.com/merged-mining/merged-mining-scene/MergedMiningIntroduction.html
02:52:17 <yanmaani> fluffypony: thanks
02:52:36 <fluffypony> np
02:59:53 <DisBotXMR> <TrooperZ> monero waifu but SFW
03:01:31 <fibonacci> We get Atari now? Sweet
03:02:16 <fibonacci> Better have Games 🎮...
03:05:24 <fibonacci> I meant to say "merged mining" yay
03:06:33 <fibonacci> Excited abour what Tari has to offer was just playin thx guyz
03:15:28 <renom[m]> bring back Minko, with a Matrix chat box?
04:04:41 <rottenwheel> https://twitter.com/rottenwheel/status/1384355673648115712
05:15:10 <infographicsmap[> Is featherwallet.org a legit wallet?
05:15:47 <rottenwheel> yes, it is.
05:16:07 <rottenwheel> still in beta, but werks since alpha-1. source: i tried it myself before it was even posted to the public.
05:16:15 <rottenwheel> dsc_ good, all rest bad.
05:22:41 <lza_menace> i second this ^
05:31:45 <Drgonz0> Hi, is exodus a legit wallet?
05:38:27 <Drgonz0> I transfer XMR to my wallet 10 hours ago and it never arrived to my wallet
05:41:01 <dEBRUYNE> Yes
05:41:07 <dEBRUYNE> From where did you transfer the XMR to your Exodus wallet?
05:42:21 <Drgonz0> binance
05:43:07 <Drgonz0> nevermind i needed to click the refresh button
05:43:16 <Drgonz0> haha
05:43:35 <Drgonz0> stressed for nothing
08:10:38 <Inge-> fluffypony: That is probably true, but as far as I could tell, at least parts of the community thought it would be more of a Monero sidechain or Monero L2 chain - i.e. somewhat more connected to Monero than just being merge mined.
10:16:50 <NormieJoe[m]> Why is Monero mooning RN?
10:17:00 <NormieJoe[m]> Everything else falling
10:20:54 <volantaryism1[m]> https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/1384205891424030727?s=20
10:20:54 <volantaryism1[m]> Maxis brainwashing that high fees are 'necessary', 'normal' and needed for security
10:21:43 <volantaryism1[m]> His advice: pay high fees to open a channel and leave 500$ worth just sitting there
10:23:04 <volantaryism1[m]> https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/1384211062140985344?s=20
10:23:51 <dEBRUYNE> Channel balance also fluctuates with median fees, a fact that is often not discussed
10:27:04 <volantaryism1[m]> I refuse to believe that the 'future of money' needs weather reports on fees, weeks long average confirm times, 30$ fees, with small payments being made over a network that costs 30$ to deposit on...
10:27:28 <volantaryism1[m]> Dont forget the surviellance
10:27:54 <DisBotXMR1> <Jeremih> Hey it's pure freedom! What are you talking about
10:28:11 <DisBotXMR1> <Jeremih> People should be happy to pay 40$ for a 5$ transfer
10:28:15 <DisBotXMR1> <Jeremih> /s
11:31:05 <fluffypony> Inge-: merge-mined + atomic swaps are as sidechain as we're going to get without compromising Monero's privacy by piling junk into individual txs
11:37:37 <dEBRUYNE> fluffypony: Will Tari use the same curve as Monero?
11:42:17 <fluffypony> dEBRUYNE: it uses Ristretto
11:42:33 <fluffypony> so similar, but different
11:42:55 <dEBRUYNE> ty
12:07:50 <Inge-> fluffypony: to be clear, I'm not criticizing Tari - just noting that parts of the Monero community perceived it somewhat differently. Kind of like how some people who know about XMR still think we are doing weekly anti-asic hardforks (I slightly exaggerated the timeframe there :P ).
12:08:00 <fluffypony> lol
12:08:24 <moneromooo> Will I get free tari coins when moneron forks ?
12:08:30 <moneromooo> *moneroncoin
12:10:46 <fluffypony> *moreno
12:13:30 <Mochi101> In this day and age you might not want a coin named that.
12:14:41 <Inge-> moneromooo: I'm told I will dump all my XMR on the noobs and get rich on Tari. Or maybe that was Fluffy. It is all a bit hazy
12:15:03 <Mochi101> You're in a cult Inge-
12:15:13 <Mochi101> :P
12:16:20 <moneromooo> To get rich on fluffy ? That sounds... wrong...
12:17:38 <Inge-> We need a second opinion. Can we ask his wife?
12:21:02 <NormieJoe[m]> But why is Monero mooning?
12:21:17 <mys> why not
12:23:15 <zib> It's overdue for a moon
12:25:44 <NormieJoe[m]> <zib "It's overdue for a moon"> Roof prediction?
12:26:51 <moneromooo> Try #monero-markets
12:54:51 <mgzrejrkf> needmoney90: Let me quote your hero. 'How do I ban FUK? AAAHHHH I don't remember. youtube.com/watch?v=mdLfkhxIH5Q Keep tryin' champion.
13:07:37 <jonah_xd[m]> <NormieJoe[m] "But why is Monero mooning?"> Subjective theory of value, idk.
13:08:54 <mmxxx[m]> <NormieJoe[m] "But why is Monero mooning?"> Why is dogecoin?
13:21:26 <jonah_xd[m]> Why is dogecoin surpassing the turkish lira ?
13:22:01 <raecarruth> because turkiye is turkiye...
13:23:17 <jonah_xd[m]> Sad
13:23:37 <jonah_xd[m]> When will the middle east ban crypto ?
13:23:46 <jonah_xd[m]> And minecraft
13:25:20 <raecarruth> you need competent government to enforce a ban
15:52:33 <xvmprhtqks> needmoney90: Let me quote your hero. 'How do I ban FUK? AAAHHHH I don't remember. youtube.com/watch?v=mdLfkhxIH5Q Keep tryin' champion.
16:20:58 <fibonacci> I'm legit happy for u guys
16:31:23 <volantaryism1[m]> At 449 dollars monero enters the top 20
16:33:49 <ern> .faucet
16:33:49 <Wallet> ​ern: How many toes do humans normally have if​ they lost 3
16:34:00 <Wallet> ern: Oops that is not correct. Try again later. (No not immediately or I'll just ignore you..)
16:34:14 <ern> 7
16:41:51 <ern> .faucet
16:41:51 <Wallet> ​ern: Wa​ter boils at __ C, divided by itself
16:41:57 <ern> 1
16:41:58 <Wallet> ern: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000075 XMR to ern [b2d526f3] Wait ≈23 hrs 59 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01666857
16:42:11 <ern> wa ter ?
16:44:00 <charolastra> how many toes do humans usually have???
16:45:21 <ern> 10 ?
16:46:22 <charolastra> no according to the bot
16:46:43 <ern> waht bot say then?
16:47:17 <charolastra> he was talking to you
16:47:25 <ern> Well, I answered too late
16:47:29 <ern> I guess
16:53:41 <apotheon> It's not true that water boils at N°C divided by itself.  Water boils at N°C.
16:54:15 <apotheon> N°C / N°C != boiling point of water
16:54:27 <apotheon> unless there are some very, very odd conditions
16:54:27 <apotheon> hmm
16:54:40 <apotheon> I guess it should specify the environment.
16:54:44 <apotheon> (I kid.)
16:59:44 <hmmp> .faucet
16:59:46 <Wallet> h​mmp: How many letters in $​PAC
16:59:50 <hmmp> 4
16:59:51 <Wallet> hmmp: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000025 XMR to hmmp [894eeb8a] Wait ≈1 day 59 sec before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01666607
17:00:01 <moneromooo> wat
17:01:04 <ern> apotheon:  , divided by itself
17:01:09 <ern> apotheon: comma is important here
17:01:36 <ern> also, water boils at different temperatures depending on altitude, so on Mt Everest, maybe 65C
17:01:45 <ern> but answer is still correct, 65/65
17:02:43 * moneromooo makes not never to go so high water boils at ~38
17:03:34 <apotheon> ern: The comma creates the possibility of being interpreted so you get the intended meaning, but it falls far short of being interpretable *only* that way.
17:03:42 <apotheon> . . . and so the problem remained.
17:04:17 <apotheon> moneromooo: good plan
17:06:28 <apotheon> "Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy, and so the problem remained."
17:07:45 <apotheon> Maybe I should have bumper stickers made for 2024 that read like so:
17:07:47 <apotheon> Lizard Number 2, 2024
17:07:47 <apotheon> Keep the other lizard out.
17:07:48 <apotheon> - Douglas Adams
17:08:50 <apotheon> It'd probably make sense to more people than my Agorism 2020 stickers.
17:37:42 <volantaryism1[m]> Anyone checked verax-ltd.com ? Selling swiss watches for monero
17:38:23 <raecarruth> is that an advert or genuine question? :)
17:39:00 <volantaryism1[m]> No just found it on twitter, not into watches so i have no info on this brand
17:39:19 <raecarruth> ok, when you said they were selling swiss made watches i had assumed better known brands
17:39:27 <raecarruth> didn't realize they were selling their own
17:39:45 <raecarruth> tell them to sell oris and hamilton and i'll buy :)
17:41:01 <volantaryism1[m]> I like how it says "pay using bitcoin" and "pay securely using monero"
17:41:18 <raecarruth> well, they're honest :)
17:48:19 <yanmaani> apotheon: what if the boiling point is 0?
17:51:32 <volantaryism1[m]> There is a monero tx broadcast every 3.1 seconds currently
17:52:01 <volantaryism1[m]> Need a 213% increase to get to 1tx/s
18:03:13 <apotheon> yanmaani: Now we have a problem.
18:05:19 <apotheon> The wallet says: "Wa​ter boils at __ C, divided by itself"
18:05:25 <apotheon> The human responds: "undef"
18:05:53 <apotheon> and the human dies from the results of all fluid in the body boiling
18:07:28 <apotheon> Does the human still get the Monero reward from Wallet?
18:07:39 <apotheon> What is the sound of one human boiling?
18:09:11 <apotheon> https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1384564175490322435.html
18:09:15 <apotheon> a bit of pontification on the subject of cryptocurrency efficiency concerns
18:13:16 <ndorf> huge thanks to whoever is deleting all the spam from github issues
18:15:04 <isthisthemoon[m]> Does Monero have the ability to support DeFi, NFT's, or smart contracts?
18:15:13 <ndorf> no, no and no
18:15:31 <isthisthemoon[m]> Why not?
18:15:42 <apotheon> Monero is money.
18:15:44 <ndorf> it's not designed to do any of that
18:16:01 <apotheon> Don't DeFi and NFTs require smart contracts?
18:16:28 <apotheon> DeFi could support Monero, though.
18:17:18 <apotheon> isthisthemoon[m]: NFTs are non-fungible tokens.  Monero is explicitly fungible.  That's a big one, right there.
18:17:30 <apotheon> If you add fungibility, you screw up the purpose of a private cryptocurrency.
18:17:32 <isthisthemoon[m]> So does not Monero have any tokenomics?
18:18:21 <isthisthemoon[m]> Why would it be a bad thing to build an NFT on top of a fungible system like Monero?
18:18:32 <ndorf> are you asking about token-omics or toke-nomics?
18:18:35 <volantaryism1[m]> isthisthemoon: monero has a set token production, just like any other coin, 0.6 monero per block starting june 2022
18:19:23 <isthisthemoon[m]> ndorf: token-omics
18:19:29 <apotheon> isthisthemoon[m]: According to https://decrypt.co/resources/tokenomics "Tokenomics is the study of how cryptocurrencies work within the broader ecosystem."  The question of whether Monero "supports" tokenomics is nonsensical, as far as I see it.
18:20:23 <ndorf> then no
18:20:29 <apotheon> It's like asking whether USD "has any" economics.
18:21:19 <isthisthemoon[m]> I'm just asking because it's hard to tell if something's a shitcoin, like Doge.
18:21:56 <volantaryism1[m]> On another note i think wrapped monero could be a good think - even if it destroys the privacy, because it would give more non-kyc on ramps to monero
18:22:04 <apotheon> These days, in some ways, BTC is a shitcoin.
18:22:51 <apotheon> As long as Monero remains the best privacy cryptocurrency available it will not be a "shitcoin".
18:24:35 <isthisthemoon[m]> Does Monero have the virgin Bitcoin problem?
18:25:06 <ndorf> volantaryism1[m]: it's not really an onramp unless you unwrap it (i.e., get real Monero out of it), at which point it doesn't seem any better than using an instant exchange?
18:25:41 <ndorf> isthisthemoon[m]: do you mean the phenomenon where freshly mined Bitcoins are worth more than circulated ones?
18:26:35 <isthisthemoon[m]> Yes, and in particular Bitcoins that weren't blood mined, like those in China using fossil fuels.
18:27:30 <apotheon> Monero's fungible, so there isn't much incentive to "overvalue" fresh Monero.
18:27:40 <ndorf> isthisthemoon[m]: Monero aims to be fungible, and it is not generally possible to distinguish between outputs
18:27:46 <volantaryism1[m]> isthisthemoon: it doesnt, each monero is indistinguishable from any other
18:27:51 <apotheon> or yeah, what ndorf said
18:28:13 <apotheon> I see the Matrix bridge is shitting the bed today.
18:28:52 <isthisthemoon[m]> Is IRC better?
18:29:05 <apotheon> "it depends"
18:29:06 <ndorf> i guess, if there is no coinbase output at all in the ring signature, then you know it's *not* freshly mined
18:29:31 <ndorf> i think it chooses coinbase outputs either more frequently or always to account for that, though
18:29:37 <apotheon> The question about which is better between IRC and Matrix is answered largely by preferences.  Each has its benefits.
18:29:37 <ndorf> not sure about that
18:29:42 <apotheon> . . . unlike Discord, which is shit.
18:31:17 <ndorf> hm, ok, it's definitely not always
18:31:37 <apotheon> ndorf: interesting, thanks for that explanation re: coinbase outputs
18:33:06 <isthisthemoon[m]> Is it possible to see if my transaction id has been included in any rings?
18:33:42 <moneromooo> If you mean whether any of your outputs was included in a ring, then yes.
18:33:51 <moneromooo> Rings do not include transactions.
18:34:38 <isthisthemoon[m]> Yeah exactly, how can I see that?
18:36:24 <entr0py> gotta love Matrix
18:38:39 <moneromooo> in monero-wallet-cli: incoming_transfers uses
18:38:41 <raecarruth> entr0py: no netsplits on freenode?
18:39:18 <moneromooo> You need to have the wallet setup to record this, it might not be on. Run "set", see whether a varaible with "uses" in the name is set.
18:39:29 <moneromooo> Probably track-uses. If it's 0, you'd need to set it then rescan_bc.
20:09:49 <volantaryism1[m]> 2 blocks in a row above 300kBs (2343685/6), am i correct in assuming that this is an example of miners compensating for reduced block reward with tx fees?
20:12:16 <sech1> No, it's just a lot of transactions currently. Miners can only include what they have in mempool.
20:12:17 <nioc>  they were not over 300kB
20:13:05 <nioc> 299.95 and 293.97
20:13:29 <moneromooo> The threshold is 300000 bytes, not 300 kB.
20:13:58 <volantaryism1[m]> moneromooo: yeah my bad i meant 300k bytes
20:14:53 <nioc> then xmrchain.net lists block sizes as [kB]
20:15:40 <sech1> it also show threshold a 292.97 kB
20:16:28 <nioc> Median block size limit: 292.97 kB
20:16:33 <nioc> is what I see
20:17:37 <nioc> so it should read kb?
20:18:01 <nioc> whoops lol
20:18:07 <nioc> ignore
20:50:07 <gingeropolous> wacky idea. make it so a solo-mining daemon can find other solo-mining daemons on the network, and preferentially connect to them
20:50:21 <gingeropolous> this will make it so all solo miners get the new block info first
20:50:36 <gingeropolous> of course, you can't prevent pool daemons from joining the ring
20:50:54 <gingeropolous> well, you might be able to if you do a timing analysis on the blocks found by the peers, because a pool will just spit out blocks
20:53:20 <gingeropolous> though i wonder if you open up the rpc, you'd be able to somehow trustlessly query a solo-mining daemon buddy to check that they are mining
20:53:52 <gingeropolous> i guess you could pass each other nonce queries or something
20:54:05 <gingeropolous> did i have this idea before?
21:16:38 <apotheon> How do people make profitable mining rigs for Monero?
21:17:18 <charolastra> i guess they don't
21:17:33 <apotheon> It seems like the profit margins are razor-thin, given expected growth in CPU capabilities for the future and the fact that the mining rig would need to overcome the hardware price.
21:17:39 <charolastra> especially not if you buy the hardware new now
21:17:43 <apotheon> right
21:18:07 <apotheon> If you use older stuff, you might not even be profitable counting gross income against electricity.
21:18:20 <apotheon> It looks difficult to guarantee paying off the hardware and breaking even.
21:18:34 <apotheon> I guess Monero must be overrun by people who just want a "clean" way to get Monero and/or want to help the network.
21:18:38 <apotheon> That's kind of inspiring.
21:19:29 <nioc> it pays for part of the computer I wanted anyway
21:19:59 <apotheon> right
21:20:00 <bledinde> Hey! Any nanopool admin here?
21:20:14 <apotheon> I know that if you're into gaming there's more incentive.
21:20:24 <apotheon> . . . or maybe if you're into compiling Rust and C++.
21:20:38 <charolastra> on #pools there was an indian guy that happened to have ~7 older intel boxes and got a 3900 now. pulling in ~38MH/s which would be 0.32XMR/month. with free elecrticity it's not bad for him
21:20:49 <apotheon> I don't really do the gaming thing, or compile Rust and C++ enough to care.
21:20:58 <apotheon> C programming is my favorite video game.
21:21:18 <apotheon> Ooh, free electricity.
21:21:22 <apotheon> s/free/subsidized/
21:21:29 <charolastra> well, basicly free
21:21:30 <apotheon> but yeah, nice for the person doing it
21:21:41 <nioc> bledinde: there is #monero-pools but I don't think they hang out there
21:22:36 <bledinde> Thanks!
21:49:08 <spreadthisinfo[m> <apotheon "Ooh, free electricity."> Where? What? How? LOL
21:53:18 <apotheon> Spaceguide: somewhere in India, apparently
21:53:21 <apotheon> err
21:53:27 <apotheon> Spaceguide: not you, sorry; tab-completion failure
21:53:35 <apotheon> spreadthisinfo[m: somewhere in India, apparently
21:57:46 <volantaryism1[m]> I read some blog by vitalik in which he said that revenue generated by mining eventually reaches cost
22:05:00 <fibonacci> Because he's such a genius because of how nerdy he looks and how weird he is...
22:05:08 <nioc> But everyone's cost is different
22:05:22 <spreadthisinfo[m> I've been following that field for awhile... have you seen the guy who designed and is making the "Earth engine"?
22:05:42 <spreadthisinfo[m> https://ie.energy/earth_engine/
22:06:37 <spreadthisinfo[m> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o31neJvF7cA
22:08:34 <spreadthisinfo[m> Unfortunately they intend to only lease it to people, which is complete bullshit.
22:09:31 <volantaryism1[m]> I think to summarise he said that as long as revenue exceedes cost people add hashpower, and those with higher fees get pushed out if they are mining for profit
22:12:14 <nioc> Of course
22:24:23 <nioc> w0w the earth engine is gunna change the world, now repeat that 5 times lol
22:24:43 <nioc> a 6 minute video with no information
22:24:47 <nioc> amazing
22:27:37 <mysteryhunter> is monero really 100%anonym?
22:27:48 <mysteryhunter> i wanna learn more about the technology
22:27:52 <mysteryhunter> how does it work
22:28:00 <mysteryhunter> and when i make a transaction, what do u know afterwards about it?
22:28:09 <mysteryhunter> do u know anything bout the tx? do u know who made it?
22:28:16 <mysteryhunter> where it went through? from where it came?
22:29:14 <hyc> no, no, no
22:29:19 <hyc> and no
22:29:32 <mysteryhunter> so u know basically nouthing about no tx ?
22:29:39 <hyc> correct
22:29:45 <mysteryhunter> is tere even something like ablockchain explorer?
22:29:50 <hyc> yes
22:29:58 <mysteryhunter> so then u know something about the tx's
22:30:11 <hyc> you know that txs have occurred
22:30:23 <mysteryhunter> can u send me the link to a tx?
22:30:27 <mysteryhunter> on a explorer
22:30:28 <mysteryhunter> so that i can see
22:30:35 <hyc> any 3rd party observer knows nothing about who was involved
22:30:51 <hyc> https://xmrchain.net/
22:30:57 <hyc> ^ good explorer
22:34:06 <moneromooo> You know various things, but not the sending address, the sending address(es), the amounts. You know the fee, the time it was made, the set of possibly spent inputs, the one time output pubkeys, that's mostly it.
22:34:40 <moneromooo> You can sometimes make probabilistic guesses on ring signatures if you crunch big data.
22:35:27 <hyc> but if looking at a single txn, you can't identify anything.
22:35:51 <hyc> nothing connects to wallet addresses
23:10:22 <ray888> is there a way to tell if a web page is running a miner when you visit it?
23:11:05 <ray888> i'm looking at some random "faucet" sites, and they all look shady as hell :)
23:15:00 <CCosta[m]> brave """"detects"""" and blocks it: https://github.com/brave/adblock-lists/blob/master/coin-miners.txt
23:15:04 <nioc> should be easy enough to see increased usage of your computer resources
23:17:46 <ray888> thanks
23:19:06 <CCosta[m]> you might be able to see it from the `performance` tab in chrome/brave/firefox/etc as it's capable of tracing the execution of literally any function being run (so a miner would show some constant high usage that never ends)
23:24:27 <ray888> i'm just getting started with monero. are faucets worth it to get some minimum coins to start with, or are they a waste of time?
23:29:03 <volantaryism1[m]> Lol do u want testnet coins
23:33:46 <ray888> do i need to set up a separate wallet for testnet?
23:34:14 <moneromooo> Yes.
23:34:36 <moneromooo> You can technically reuse the same keys, but you'll need two separate wallet files.
23:34:44 <moneromooo> So not much point.