00:29:46 I ❤ Ric I'm sorry for being Dik bro 00:30:06 There are multiple psychological hooks to keep Monero community members in place. Here is one: 00:30:06 https://vimeo.com/272691039 00:30:06 Notice that Scientologists don't stand on street corners saying "Would you like to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Xenu?" 00:30:06 Put yourself instead in the shoes of someone who spent $10,000 and 2-3 years of their life on their courses 00:30:06 And you get a bunch of bad sci-fi - you have two choices: 00:31:42 ^ This guy is funny 00:32:38 But the struggle is real 00:48:03 are we all rich yet 00:48:08 .val xmr 00:48:09 abcdefg_irssi: XMR -> USD • Avg: ≈420.56 • ccc/OKEX: ≈$420.15 24HΔ: 22.39167% Vol: 104.84K [0m] • cmc: ≈$420.97 24HΔ: 18.55763% 7DΔ: 28.10526% [< 1m] 00:48:17 420 on 4/20 00:48:20 weed 00:56:30 Yay! It made it to 420 on 4/20! 01:01:26 https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=102003043&srcid=share 01:06:40 * volantaryism1[m] uploaded an image: (64KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/PYEUMKBkGJHmzjvQMNKdxixg/1618963699508.png > 01:10:09 interesting image 01:11:34 * volantaryism1[m] uploaded an image: (149KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ZtLjYIFzETmOWtJxOgCcxZzy/1618936696353.jpg > 02:09:34 .usd 03:20:06 You will DO what Monero tells you to do. You will JUMP when you are told to jump. And most importantly you will DISCONNECT whoever Scientology^H^H^H^H^H I mean Mnero tells you to disconnect. Otherwise you WILL end up like lh1008 here: 03:20:06 monerologs.net/monero-community/20210114#c181614 And you will do it all for FREE. Because Monero is open souce :D Just like Linux is there to pay for $700k watches that Torvalds wears. 03:22:47 why count other peoples money? 03:50:02 hey guys, when running monero-wallet-rpc, is there a time interval that new subaddress/subaccount states get 03:50:05 saved 03:51:05 i restarted a wallet earlier and it caused a subaddress to get reused in a web service 03:52:04 i realize now that i should enforce unique values in my db schema, which im implementing, but curious about the timing still as occasionally I have to restart my wallet process 03:52:32 it's usually not a problem, but today it was :) 04:59:19 So monero has just gone from being the no-nonsense actual fungible p2p electronic cash, to becoming the premier meme-coin. Sorry Doge, sorry WOW - you have been outmemed. 05:00:16 lza_menace: can you ask for a specific subaddress index via the rpc? 05:00:51 yes 05:06:44 I think we need a best practices document on subaddresses for larger services / exchanges. 05:09:18 that would be cool, i'd reference it a lot 05:09:33 as of now i just make decisions and learn the hard way :D 05:10:47 cant reproduce this one locally, so for now added better checks in the code (too lazy to update sql schemas) 05:19:22 maybe binaryFate can help with that ^ (minko and xmrto experience) 05:28:54 just an incrementing subaddress subaddress index in the db schema should do it 05:44:01 create_address should always advance one 05:45:12 rbut he got a duplicate after restarting wallet 05:50:03 yeah... very strange 05:54:51 .shrug 06:08:28 it isn't actual detection, it's just the usual blocking it sees monerominer.js ? it gets blocked that's it 06:20:47 lza_menace: not sure about timing. But in order to have a sane implementation I'd suggest the following 06:20:55 * Use the "store" RPC call regularly (helps to limit missing data in case of wallet crash, brutal shutdown, storage issue...) 06:21:09 * Always record in your DB the index (and account while you're at it) together with subaddresses. You get this value directly from the response of the RPC call create_address, you do NOT guess it based on your number of calls. This way you always know how to regenerate a subaddress if need be. 06:21:22 * Record the largest index you have created so far. It's just an integer that you increment over time basically. If your storage failed you know how many to re-generate to get back on track. 06:21:38 * Make sure to have a "unique" constraint on your subaddresses in your DB 06:21:55 All this also greatly helps if you have to recreate your wallet from seed. 06:24:43 If you write a simple wrapper around create_address that keeps creating addresses as long as they already exist in DB, and stops and returns the first new one, you can fail and restart and get back up to speed seemlessly 06:25:19 smart 06:34:54 heck yeah - thanks binaryFate 07:47:08 .faucet 07:47:11 Inge-: 10000000 times 3 divided by 7 multiplied by 0 07:47:15 0 07:47:16 Inge-: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000022 XMR to Inge- [9dbcbef8] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01660881 07:47:45 hustling piconeros 07:48:20 https://redd.it/mvap9z 07:53:18 .faucet 07:53:20 Mochi101: How many toes do humans normally have if they have 0 legs 07:53:25 0 07:53:25 Mochi101: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000025 XMR to Mochi101 [3819a896] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01660631 07:53:48 I think the more difficult questions like this one should have a higher payout. 08:03:53 .faucet 08:03:53 sech1: Access denied for faucet. Are you logged in? 08:04:02 No free money for me :( 08:04:18 .balance 08:04:19 sech1: • Your balance is: 0.00489065 XMR (≈1.92 USD) 08:05:13 .balance 08:05:21 .faucet 08:05:35 I see 08:07:20 doies anyone know of a decent trustwortrhy windows XRP wallet 08:08:43 .balance 08:08:43 Inge-: • Your balance is: 0.0051692 XMR (≈2.02 USD) 08:08:48 XRP? 08:11:20 ripple 08:11:46 exodus proably has it 08:13:56 I know what xrp is. I was just confounded by why someone would ask about a Ripple wallet in here. 08:17:40 yeah, makes sense 08:20:43 GUARDA. a multi-coin wallet. lookiung good 08:20:57 a really nice desktop wallet. fully featured. 08:21:44 exodus though 08:22:16 not good 08:22:17 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620459189097201669/834343265984708648/Screenshot_2021-04-21_at_10.22.10.png 08:48:45 Does anyone know where I can find a Riccardo waifu pillow that accepts XMR for payment? 08:53:42 Pillows are for losers, go for the dildo with his size and shape 09:06:11 Jake[m]1, are you in the USA? 09:08:00 I could make you a pillow, but largest I could go for cuddling is 24" x 12"... or if you want one just to squeeze between your legs I could do 26" x 26" 09:08:16 But you'd have to be in the USA for those sizes. 09:08:59 You could even tell me which picture of fluffypony you want on it, if you have a preference. 09:10:07 Unfortunately not, am in Australia. 09:10:24 Well... then the maximum sizes change... 09:11:57 I can do 22x22 inch or 12x20 inch 09:12:18 fluffy fluffypony pillows 09:12:23 * moneromooo thought it was a snarky comment about USA people being more spherical than others... 09:12:47 :) 09:31:55 I'm trying to build a local network music discovery 'app' where musicians upload songs to a server on their local network, and then other people access that server and can listen to a radio of the songs. In order to like a song + then play it back at any you need to 'tip' the artist using monero. I took a look at https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/accepting/ and 09:31:56 https://monero-python.readthedocs.io/en/latest/transactions.html but can't quite figure out how to verify that a tip was sent to the artist's Monero wallet. Is there some type of proof the tipper can provide which will demonstrate they paid some amount to the artist's address? And if so, how can I generate such a proof for any old person (i.e they don't have their own node with RPC enabled) 09:33:26 There is, but that sounds like sending fractions of a penny, which is going to (1) be swamped by tx fees and (2) spam the chain with tiny dust txes. 09:33:56 You might instead want to try using primo, which uses monero mining to "pay" for service: https://getmonero.org/selene/primo 09:34:13 It requires users to run software, though. 09:34:57 hmm that's a good idea but for my use case I don't want to drain people's phones battery (which I think they'll be using to listen) + like you said they would need special software 09:35:28 Fair enough. Then tx proofs exist, there are RPC for this. 09:35:44 get_tx_proof and check_tx_proof. You do need access to the chain to verify it though. 09:36:16 FWIW the primo system allows mining on a different device than the one "consuming" the credits. 09:36:25 But yes, it does get a bit heavy. 09:36:43 My understanding though is that if say I exposed my local monero daemons RPC functionality, it would only be able to generate proofs for my wallets on the device, someone can't use it to generate a proof for some wallet i'm never seen (this is what I gathered from the RPC docs but i could be completely wrong) 09:38:01 I suppose I could make it they send a larger amount (several dollars) to the server's wallet, and then they can tip any amount and it's just recorded in a db, then above a ceartin thresold the artist gets paid 09:38:30 not ideal b/c makes the server a good attack opporunity and node operators could easily steal funds 09:39:58 is kovri dead? 09:40:45 If you have... 1000 users, each deposits a $10 balance which gets eaten step by step, 5k average balance on the server. Not a huge target. 09:40:50 mmxxx[m]: yes 09:41:22 is there anything to replace kovri? or any workable guides for i2p and xmr? 09:41:44 The monero GUI works with i2p0 IIRC, another I2P router. 09:41:58 Not sure what docs they have, check hte git tree. 09:43:32 thx, will have a look 09:44:13 I suppose I could rely on the honesty system, let people tip and put in a transaction hash :/ the other way to solve this problem would to have cakewallet or whatever testify to a transaction being created 09:45:07 would be great to say like cakewallet:

:: and then cake would invoke the callback url when it was done 09:46:03 What is the dollar equivalent you're send for a song ? 09:46:31 maybe 50c to a couple of dollars, it would be up to the user 09:47:18 Oh. I was expecting a fair bit less than one cent. I was thinking pay to play, maybe I misunderstood. 09:48:03 THen my comment about being swamped by fees does not apply. 09:48:14 sorry I probably didn't explain very well. Basically if you dont pay for any songs you just listen to a songs randomly. If you pay you get to listen to that song any time you want forever 09:48:27 got it 09:48:44 Registration fee? 09:48:46 Then get_tx_proof/check_tx_proof is what you want I think. 09:49:13 best place to buy monero from ? 09:49:19 Like 2.5$ so the artists can still get something like, on a monthly basis 09:49:47 kraken seems the one that gets most votes. Otherwise, binance seems second. 09:50:21 oh great, my understanding is though that https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html#get_tx_proof doesn't let say me, generate a tx proof, using your monero RPC node 09:50:22 Both will ask for papers, please though. 09:50:30 kraken, I get invalid server response while trying to register 09:51:01 @Jeremih it's more for local artists to share their music and maybe get rewarded. I plan to install it on my local university campus which is heavily arts focused 09:51:12 The sender generates the proof (a text string), sends it to whoever wants to check it. 09:51:32 Or you could do it differently: 09:52:28 Every user gets assigned a... 32 bit user id. Every track gets assigned a 32 bit track id. 09:52:55 When user X wants to tip for track Y, then send the tip, with an encrypted payment ID equal to (X<<32)|Y. 09:52:59 Hmm sorry moneromoo I don't really understand the internal mechanics of Monero, I just have a vauge understanding. If I had to generate a spend proof in the browser (i can make a HTTP request to a daemon but it would be shared for all users)? 09:53:05 Then no proof needed. 09:54:00 I thought paymentIDs were removed a while ago 09:54:09 perhaps I'm just out of my depth here haha 09:54:09 Your server cannot generate the proof, the user would have to. 09:54:17 got it thought so 09:54:25 Long unencrypted payment ids were removed. Short encrypted ones remain. 09:54:45 Sgort being 64 bits, or 8 bytes. 09:55:48 oh that would work using the user id + track id like you suggested 09:57:07 is there some documentation about using the short encrypted payment ids? 09:57:52 Not really. They're embedded in integrated addresses really, the user doesn't get to see them. 09:58:13 They're just a 64 bit number given to the user though. 09:58:24 Here, the user would build it themselves instead. 09:58:43 I actually removed the ability to do that a couple years ago :/ 09:59:01 But that's an interesting use of it. 09:59:59 I think it'd make a good topic in -dev, if you want to ask there. Maybe others wlil have other ideas. And if not, we can see what people think about restoting the ability for the user to select a short payment id. 10:01:18 Alternatively, some kind of always on attached encrypted data that's more than 64 bits would be nice for things like this. Replacing payment id I guess. 10:01:24 https://monerodocs.org/public-address/integrated-address/ It seems like I could generate this on the server: 19 - main chain 32 - that users public spend key (that can be shared) 32 - public view key (that can be shared) 8 - the song id (i can associate users with the public spend/view keys) 4 - checksum 10:01:48 Yes, you could. 10:02:15 that would be great if I could ask in -dev, I don't have permission to post though 10:02:21 One thing though: 10:03:00 You say "associate users with the public spend/view keys", that implies subaddress (or many standard addresses, but that'll suck majorly for syncing) 10:03:23 Subaddress don't have integrated addresses. 10:03:38 Hence the 32 bit + 32 bit split. 10:04:21 Actually that could work with the bytecoin trick of a single view key with different spend keys. I always liked that trick. 10:04:29 But we don't have the tooling for this. 10:05:28 Hmm I think i'll have to read into that a bit more since I don't quite understand (not sure about the specifics of public spend/view keys), and if they do change over time it would be pretty burdenous for the user to keep looking them up each time they wanted to make a tip. Trying to make the user experience as noob friendly as possible 10:05:29 Same flags in -dev, not sure why you can't post. 10:05:46 I am on discord, would that effect things? 10:06:05 Only if -dev has a ban line for the bot. 10:09:34 okay seems I can access it via IRC 11:51:56 I can tell you why you can't stop the 'spam'. You are thinking in cult doctrine. If it was real spam, and I was selling Viagra for example - you could easily ban keywords and urls. Instead, stop being a sheep, think like a cult leader. Recoginse that this 'spam' is just some bullshit that you tell to the sheep. 12:21:52 Look on the bright side. At least you don't need to obsess over signs of life from FUK now. 12:52:31 404 lol 14:13:27 How do I use the address book in the cli wallet? Can I do something like `transfer address_book:0 `, or some other way to avoid copy-pasting a saved address in the trandsfer command? 14:14:19 AFAIK you cannot. 14:16:48 Too bad :/ it would be a great way to minimize the risks involved in copy-pasting stuff around. Check and save the address once, then reference it directly from the address book 14:19:56 Btw, another suggestion for the cli wallet: currently it seems to be impossible to close a wallet via Ctrl+C or Ctrl+D after it gets locked due to inactivity. The only option seems to be closing the terminal window. Is there a specific reason behind this? 14:20:44 The keyboard is set to raw mode, to disable echo. 14:21:03 Or maybe not quite raw since Linux so that'd be unsafe, but close enough. 14:21:29 So Ctrl-commands don't get picked up? 14:21:30 ^C and ^D become usable in a password :) 14:21:50 Hmm, interesting 14:22:20 I don't think ^C triggers a signal in this case. ^D never does, it's interpreted as EOF by the high level API. 14:22:22 Still, it would be nice to have a way to sanely close a wallet that got auto-locked 14:22:30 Enter password. 14:22:48 ...without having to re-enter the password, that is :P 14:23:03 Well, small patch welcome. 14:24:46 Heh, I would if I could 14:26:22 might be an issue about this already, kinda rings a bell. 14:45:46 Are there contingency plans is minexmr reaches 50% of known hashrate? 14:52:24 There is apparently 400MH/s avaliable on miningrigrentals.com/rigs/randomx 14:53:12 https://miningrigrentals.com/rigs/randomx 15:11:32 note that the % on the reddit post for minexmr was vs know hash rate and vs network hash rate is significantly lower 15:11:38 45% vs 37% 15:18:04 has anybody a setup/deployment with running dockerized xmrig ? 15:18:55 I want to deploy that (maybe with ansible) on a linux host (FAST) (over and over, working) 15:20:00 mining RandomX in a VM is slower 15:24:37 slower than what? 15:24:57 than on bare metal ok 15:25:07 but faster than not mining at all 15:25:31 if running a container right on bare metal, should be the same 15:26:09 if running in a docker container in a VM (like, using `docker-for-mac` or something), make sure you bump the hugepages 15:28:47 ok, hugepages. thx for that hint 15:29:09 what pool should you use for Tor? 15:29:30 Why does Monero detect edits as message repeats? I was editing a message once many times, and it called me out for spam. 15:30:02 or is it equal to use a "normal" pool and just proxy all over the tor network? 15:30:45 jj1013[m]: because when you edit a message on the matrix side, it just resends it to IRC 15:30:56 it also sucks when you send an image, send a multi-line message, or quote someone :) 15:32:02 IIRC, edited messages resent on IRC have an "*" behind them... is there a way the bots detect it's just an edit? 15:32:06 Or can that be cheated? 15:32:16 no, to the bots (and to everyone else) you are just a spammer lol 15:32:46 if you ask an op nicely they can give you voice in the channel, and that should stop the bots from harassing you 15:41:32 Is there a way to speed up the local node download/sync? I currently have the startup flag as --block-sync-size 20 15:42:29 I am already on SSD 15:44:03 wide_side: I think you can bump --prep-blocks-threads (4 is the default) and --block-sync-size to some 500 as suggested https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference/ 15:44:19 it might go faster if you remove --block-sync-size, then it can adjust it for you 15:44:20 see the performance section 15:44:38 > it might go faster if you remove --block-sync-size, then it can adjust it for you 15:44:38 oh that's nice, I didn't know it'd autoadjust 15:45:21 Great thank you, I will remove it and give that doc a read 16:15:45 Does monero need lots of virtual memory? 16:15:51 still? 16:16:34 I have a friend who I suspect is running out of memory, so oom_killer killed sshd haha 16:17:01 monerod will use about 100 GB, yes. 16:17:08 A bit more. 16:17:13 currentlky using 121 GB virtual for me but only 3.1 GB reserved 17:31:00 I use the monero gui on linux. When sending amounts, a fee appears. Is that fee deducted from the sent amount,or the wallet? 17:31:18 wallet 17:32:04 what happens if i specify an amount equal to the wallet amount then? 17:35:08 then you can't send 17:57:48 monerod(54766,0x30a7ea000) malloc: *** error for object 0x7fb913901c00: pointer being freed was not allocated 17:58:08 monerod(54766,0x30a7ea000) malloc: *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug 17:58:13 Anyone know what this means? 17:59:53 means you've found a bug in monerod 18:00:27 abcdefg_irssi: which OS? 18:00:42 MacOS 18:01:08 And which version? Plus version of monerod 18:01:22 .17.2.0 18:03:44 abcdefg_irssi: if you open Console.app is there a monerod crash report? 18:04:45 Yes 18:04:49 whats a website ill upload it 18:04:50 can you share it? 18:04:54 paste.debian.net 18:05:22 http://paste.debian.net/1194583/ 18:07:09 there is one known rpc ssl related segfault, not sure if it is this one 18:11:33 abcdefg_irssi: thanks, sent the crash report to wfaressuissia[m], he is usually good with fixing these :) 18:12:52 Thanks 18:12:55 any idea what happened? 18:13:12 you can run your daemon with --rpc-ssl disabled 18:13:47 there is a bug in daemon rpc ssl code that can cause a crash 18:13:57 ah 18:14:03 i mean seems pretty rare 18:14:15 ive had it running almost 24/7 for a couple weeks first crash ive had 18:17:07 ugh, very bad bug. 19:20:44 Howard Chu is a high IQ scholar, he has more Google images with a violin than Sting with a guitar, he singlehandely saved NASA from doom. Why can't the saviour of NASA save Monero? 19:23:11 My project accepts XMR donation. You can find my XMR address at my homepage: 19:23:11 https://freebsdgames.xyz 19:42:45 FasXmut[m]: If you want to help these games get more exposure, you could add information about the websites for their projects to your posts, as well as licensing information. 19:43:20 FasXmut[m]: In particular, for my sake, it would make it easier for me to ensure that any of them with copyfree licenses get added to the copyfree works list on the CI site. 19:44:02 Yes, I have already put a link to the game's official site. 19:44:48 I thought the first one I checked didn't have a link to the website. Maybe I missed it. 19:47:39 .val xmr 19:47:39 abcdefg_1rssi: XMR -> USD • Avg: ≈397.23 • ccc/OKEX: ≈$398.08 24HΔ: -1.36% Vol: 826.09K [< 1m] • cmc: ≈$396.38 24HΔ: -1.11% 7DΔ: 26.12528% [< 8m] 20:03:48 moneromooo: By the way, this is a thing. http://copyfree.org/resources/works#Monero 20:28:42 Can someone translate this to English for me? https://twitter.com/Beam28817369/status/1384965800172429314 20:28:55 "Monero‘s anonymity set is 11 while Beam’s optional Lelantus Mimblewimble anonymity set is 64,000" 20:29:50 apotheon, monero = 12 people being in a room and guessing who farted. Beam is 64,000 people being in a room and guessing who farted. 20:30:12 Okay. 20:30:23 What about the "optional" part? 20:30:37 I just farted. 20:30:42 . . . and what does Lelantus mean? 20:31:15 Can anyone suggest another wallet that i can send\recieve Monero from besides the one at getmonero 20:31:20 See, the farted didn't care that people knew he farted. So it doesn't matter how many people are in the room with him. 20:31:27 Bigboiimike: https://featherwallet.org/ 20:31:34 I've read some things talking about Mimblewimble not being as private as the CryptoNote approach, too, but I don't know what's supposed to be less private about it. 20:31:42 Its not working for me. It lets me install it and then when i sign in it keeps popping up a box that wont let me use it 20:32:00 Lelantus is just a super awesome cool name that they gave the protocol. 20:32:05 I lied about farting. My wife farted. 20:32:10 hmm 20:32:13 apotheon: i think that there's an issue with most mimblewimble implementations where an attacker can just watch the network traffic for a while and deanonymise everyone 20:32:29 sorry for linking to bitcoin.com :P but https://news.bitcoin.com/researcher-breaks-mimblewimble-deanonymizing-96-of-grin-transactions/ 20:34:35 sad 20:34:42 Long live Momero 20:34:52 MW is not the same as Lelantus. Lelantus is a privacy tech, which they apparently use. 20:35:35 MW basically aggressively prunes stuff, and without the pruned data you can't tell some things. It's basically relying on nobody keeping the pruned data. 20:35:54 Says wow might be risky is this normal? 20:36:04 Lelantus seems like a bona fide privacy tech, with an equivalent of ring size 64k (from your quote). 20:36:29 When used. So most of the time it'll be a room of 1. 20:36:37 But sometimes a room of 64k. 20:37:43 But AFAIK Beam is a corporate coin with (I think ?) premine. And I read it's filled with ex military/spook people (though I did not investigate, so it could be bollocks). So who'd trust that. Grin is the legit MW chain. 20:38:12 In a room of 1 it's pretty obvious who farted. 20:38:31 the fartman 20:38:38 one of the first results for lelantus "Privacy Coin Firo Launches 'Privacy by Default' on Mainnet (Jan 2021)". next result "Privacy Coin Firo Temporarily Disables Lelantus Protocol (Feb 2021)" :D 20:38:56 Bug ? 20:38:58 Temporarily 20:39:56 I bought a gamer girl’s fart in a jar and released it. 20:40:29 Queen Asphyxia's ? 20:40:35 Whats wrong with bitcoin.com? 20:41:16 IIRC bitcoin.com was kinda directing noobs to bitcoin cash as "bitcoin". Scammers basically. 20:41:22 fuckin monero 20:41:24 stop going up 20:41:30 i want to buy 20:41:38 Apparently Firo has a system where they can turn off pricacy features in a centralized way 20:43:58 Atleast they are saved from fees :P 20:47:47 apotheon: I think it's just like monero's ring size, but they made it so you can crank it up to 11 20:48:00 or to 64 20:48:12 asymptotically: Thanks for the link. 20:48:54 It looks like the "optional" part is that Beam defaults to the same ring size but allows turning it up. 20:49:36 The person also said this, in response to the Mimblewimble thing: "This is a problem with basic Mimblewimble but not applicable to Beam. Beam uses spent decoys with each tx to obscure the tx graph" 20:51:34 Oh, so it's always on, but ring size can go to 64k ? 20:51:59 Then close to nobody will use 64k except people who want to stick out ? 20:53:45 seems like it 20:53:57 It's a bit weird. 20:54:24 There must be a bit of a practical issue with 64 to not just have it turned on all the time. 20:54:36 probably transaction size or something like that 20:54:59 I'm obviously not the expert, here. 20:55:37 Any opinions on post triptych ring sizes? 20:55:39 64k would be heinously slow to verify, most likely. 20:55:52 So every tx with 64k -> chain dead in practice 20:56:04 apotheon: in practice, the anonymity set is ~1 20:56:12 (I'm speculating here) 20:56:12 cause it does, basically, a coinjoin for each block 20:58:20 oooh ringsizes 20:59:20 if it seems that triptych is still a years to come, perhaps there's time we can figure out whether we should program it to automatically increase ringsize in response to x 20:59:50 x being some magical dynamical thing 20:59:57 or x being something simple like blockheight 21:01:51 with either, i see the advantage is that if update consensus can't be achieved in the future, programming in *something* permits monero to become more powerful (?) over time 21:02:03 can't that just be done in the hardfork? can't you just get it right the first time? 21:02:22 Maybe you could just vote on it on-chain. Or make it a function of the block size. 21:03:14 i would say no, because reasonable ringsizes for the next hardfork are probably an order of magnitude below the *ideal* ringsize for as close to absolute privacy as feasible within the system 21:03:18 each block, miner can commit to desired ring size. each week, take the median of desired ring sizes. clamp to [old_ringsize * 0.95, old_ringsize * 1.05] and you're good to go 21:03:58 for some really advanced stuff, maybe you could make tx fees conditional. Hmm, I wonder if that'd be a good way to accomplish "democracy" in general 21:04:12 1) miners commit to some value X for some parameter in their blocks 21:04:41 2) users can conditionally say "tx fee=A if X>n, X perhaps. For some reason I'm always hesitant to permit miner influence on things. The profit incentive for miners "works" to an extent. but that drive for profits can come at the expense of network security 21:07:16 i know the irony though, because , miners control the whole thing. But not really. 21:07:49 like, miners could set the ringsize to a larger size simply to increase the size of txs so they can get more fees 21:07:52 gingeropolous: in this model it'd schematically be users doing it :) 21:08:38 gingeropolous: that could be counteracted though. Just change the feerate, so they're economically indifferent 21:08:42 with the block sizing system 21:09:50 hrm. well anyway, the point is whether we should take the opportunity to take the human hand out of this equation 21:10:40 You can never take the human hand out, just move it around. 21:10:57 ringsize=1 means super scalable, not very private 21:11:05 ringsize=infinity means super private, not very scalable 21:11:18 human hand will have to look at the factors and make a determination, frankly 21:11:29 well, yeah I guess thats not really the goal. i guess the goal is to protect against a future where for whatever reason there's no ability to update the network 21:11:34 so the network just updates itself 21:11:37 well, upgrades 21:11:55 gingeropolous: is that a conceivable threat? Wouldn't a simple timebomb be more logical 21:12:03 Human boot will make the determination. 21:12:17 * moneromooo looks at history 21:12:20 simple what now/ 21:12:35 gingeropolous: add in a consensus rule: "block is invalid if height > H" 21:12:48 then you can be sure you'll get an update :) 21:12:55 lol. 21:13:24 i like to think in cockroach level. 21:13:52 "Get nuked. Shrug it off. Look for fried food." 21:14:18 doubt you can make an upgrade happen in a terminator-2 intro scene level post apocolyptic future 21:14:20 but, they had radios 21:14:27 so you can send data 21:15:15 a network upgrade with release i mean. 21:15:35 of course, in that scenario, i doubt there will be computer advancements that could keep up with a blockheight determined ringsize 21:15:50