00:11:48 <nioc> chad[m]: apotheon churning is useful in certain circumstances and there are ways of getting it wrong
00:12:00 <nioc> for regular use churning is not necessary
00:25:10 <Kontvolkoren> https://twitter.com/cakewallet/status/1391180001379295235
00:32:59 <chad[m]> nioc thanks for the reply. Are you aware of any wallet's that facilitate coin selection, or at least some ability to make sure I'm churning my outputs to the degree I require?
00:34:07 <nioc> you can do so in the CLI with sweep_single
00:34:22 <nioc> why do you think that you need to do so ?
00:36:33 <nioc> there are more ways to churn incorrectly than to do it right
00:38:59 <nioc> I might be getting it wrong but it only seems only necessary to churn if you are receiving txs from someone who knows your identity and sending to someone who knows your identity and they exchange info
00:39:33 <nioc> remove the second only
00:39:59 <hyc> that's mainly it
00:40:23 <hyc> the whole EAE attack scenario could happen though without you knowing
00:41:01 <hyc> I mean, if you buy XMR from an exchange, send to a merchant, and they immediately cash out using the same exchange - you have no way of knowing the merchant is doing that
00:43:17 <nioc> would that apply if you only did so once or does that scenario need to be repeated for a connection to be reveled ?
00:46:20 <hyc> I guess a repeat makes it obvious
00:47:41 <hyc> as you said, there's plenty of ways to churn wrong and make things worse.
00:48:45 <hyc> best case I suppose is to sweep single outputs by themselves
00:49:23 <hyc> I mean, the very best if you withdraw from an exchange is that you receive a single output. so you only need to do one sweep_single.
00:50:03 <hyc> if you receive multiple outputs you'd want to sweep them individually at randomly separated times
00:50:43 <hyc> if they ever get combined in the same txn that kind of gives it all away
00:50:59 <nioc> when knacc talked about it in MRL even sweeping single outputs b4 combining seemed to be wrong, very confusing (removed a c as to not ping him :) )
00:51:28 <hyc> well, combining is probably the bigger issue there
00:51:57 <nioc> somehow made things worse
00:51:59 <hyc> not sure that's a big issue any more, ever since ringCT
00:52:02 <nioc> .shrug
00:52:14 <nioc> yes with RingCT
00:52:16 <hyc> I mean, before that we had denominated outputs
00:52:32 <hyc> so you were pretty much always receiving multiple outputs
00:52:51 <nioc> you either leave a trail to the past or the future depending on you churning methods
00:52:54 <hyc> now, you should pretty much always be receiving a single output of the exactly correct amount
01:07:10 <anonmon777[m]> Are there security flaws for using the Monero wallet private key also for a crypto lock login system (https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/Monero-Crypto-Lock)?
01:27:12 <anonmon777[m]> Would love to discuss this. Anybody?
04:46:57 <DisBotXMR1> <D.A. Rothschild> Anyone try Moneroswap? It's got some good reviews on dread
04:54:03 <DisBotXMR1> <D.A. Rothschild> http://xmrswap3xdn46qn3zw3gd27lfvk6upkhrmaroxtpld4ag4itljsqb6yd.onion
04:54:39 <DisBotXMR1> <D.A. Rothschild> I need a new btc to xmr exchange after xmr.is disappeared and they seem promising
04:58:37 <throwd> anonmon777[m] well I guess if it's just public/private key stuff and you create a wallet dedicated to auth and don't have any funds without looking into it it sounds fine
04:59:19 <fehho[m]> DisBotXMR1: https://swapspace.co/ is an aggregator that tells you the best rate out of a load of different instant exchanges.
04:59:38 <throwd> I'd prefer entering a passphrase before unlocking it each time
05:07:35 <kijari[m]> <DisBotXMR1 "<D.A. Rothschild> I need a new b"> Are you after a decentralized exchange or does it not matter as long as you can exchange between the two?
05:28:47 <BigBoiiMike> .balance
05:28:47 <Wallet> BigBoiiMike: • Your balance is: 0.0000252 XMR (≈0.01 USD)
05:28:57 <BigBoiiMike> woot
05:29:17 <BigBoiiMike> tips accepted all day errrrrday
06:20:29 <kijari[m]> This is just sad. Looking at other privacy coins that exist, there are very few that seem to be as developed as Monero. Firo seems like a mess due to 2miners.com having over 51% of the network (Comparing their pool hashrate to the network earlier showed around 70% of the network on their pool) and others just seem to be abandoned or privacy opt-in rather than the privacy always on approach of Monero which as most of us will
06:20:29 <kijari[m]> probably know is not good enough for actual privacy.
06:22:59 <kijari[m]> That's without touching on the problem that most seem to be ASIC friendly which seriously hurts the ability for people like us to mine them with reasonable hardware.
06:44:01 <Drgonz0> Just started mining with home pc. cpu got up to 103 degrees! Whats the way to configure xmrig to ust only a portion of the cpu power?
06:55:41 <dxrwzy9y[m]> I received some Monero, why is it showing up in my transaction history but not in my primary account in the Monero GUI?
06:58:53 <Mumuks[m]1> <dxrwzy9y[m] "I received some Monero, why is i"> Which system and Monero GUI are you using?
06:59:28 <dxrwzy9y[m]> The official one from the Monero website
06:59:44 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Using a ledger hardware wallet
07:03:00 <fehho[m]> Could you go to the transaction history and say the blockheight of the receiving transaction?
07:03:23 <fehho[m]> Or look at the confirmations at the same page
07:03:38 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Just checked the ledger app, I'm gonna update my firmware now
07:04:00 <fehho[m]> Make sure that your seed is written down before updating firmware if it isn't already
07:05:02 <dxrwzy9y[m]> I did that when I first got it
07:05:15 <fehho[m]> 👍️
07:09:58 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Okay it's showing up now :D
07:10:54 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Wait what's total unlocked balance? How do I unlock it?
07:11:03 <fehho[m]> How many confirmations, just to know? It might have just been a UX problem of unconfirmed transaction if under around 20.
07:11:23 <fehho[m]> ^unlocked after 10 confirmations, 1 confirmation over ~2 minutes
07:11:28 <dxrwzy9y[m]> It says 3/10
07:11:45 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Oh I see
07:11:54 <dxrwzy9y[m]> It's 4 now
07:12:33 <fehho[m]> Sounds like it put the transaction into history when it was found in the mempool but didn't add it to unconfirmed balance until first confirmation
07:12:47 <kijari[m]> <Drgonz0 "Just started mining with home pc"> In the CPU configuration part of the ``config.json`` file you can manually enable or disable cores by adding or removing them.
07:13:03 <dxrwzy9y[m]> Okay good to know
07:14:19 <kijari[m]> Generally speaking if it's that bad I'd recommend you try to disable every other core and then slowly add cores back until it's in a comfortable temperature zone. If it's still bad with half of your cores, you can dial it even further back if needed. I doubt you'll have to do that but use your best judgement.
07:45:44 <Inge-> .faucet
07:45:47 <Wallet> I​nge-: How many letters​ in flap
07:45:49 <Inge-> 4
07:45:49 <Wallet> Inge-: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000012 XMR to Inge- [5c416ecb] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01683731
13:45:21 <pixelized[m]> <kijari[m] "This is just sad. Looking at oth"> yeah, absolutely
13:45:31 <pixelized[m]> the focus on asic resistance of monero is a major selling point for me
13:46:12 <pixelized[m]> the fact that other 'privacy coins' are so mediocre does provide me with confidence that picking monero as a favorite is wise :P
13:46:15 <pixelized[m]> so hey, an advantage there
15:19:40 <Metamorphosis> Hello guys. Noob here. How can I mine monero. What is a good wallet?
15:20:49 <moneromooo> You can either mine alone or in a pool. Alone means it's private, you have large variance (you get a whole block of monero but very very seldom), you pay no pool fee.
15:21:18 <moneromooo> Pool means you mine for a pool, which pays you later when blocks are found, payments more often but small slices at a time.
15:21:49 <moneromooo> The pool miner is usually xmrig. It can also mine to the daemon if you want to mine alone. xmrig hashes faster than monerod.
15:22:11 <moneromooo> To mine alone: in monerod, once synced, you run: start_mining ADDRESSHERE N
15:22:36 <moneromooo> N is the number of threads to mine on. You can tweak N to see what works best for your computer.
15:22:58 <moneromooo> For pool mining, you get xmrig from github and choose a pool. Don't pick one of the two big ones, it's dangerous.
15:23:15 <moneromooo> Then the pool you choose will typically have a sample xmrig command to use to mine to it.
15:23:45 <moneromooo> You can use https://townforge.net/cgi-bin/choose_pool to pick a pool. If it gives you one with > 25% hash rate, you may want to reload.
15:24:27 <moneromooo> As for good wallets, monero-wallet-cli is a good wallet. I hear good things about Feather wallet too.
15:24:38 <moneromooo> And monero-wallet-gui.
15:39:29 <zib> my securitynerve tickles when I see monerod doing upnp by default. Didn't notice that before
15:41:05 <Metamorphosis> thanks a lot moneromooo does monero have official discord?
16:02:01 <fluffypony> zib: I mean, upnp is trivially blocked on your router, and it's good for the network because it means more nodes with open inbound connections
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> Flash Forward is a truly deflationary token, rewarding holders making every FFW count
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◼️ Name: FlashForward
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◻️ Ticker: FFW
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◼️ Total Supply: 6,000,000 (half burned🔥)
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◻️ Only 6 decimals!
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◼️ 5% to holders
16:14:54 <Zyborgh> ◻️ 5% to LP
16:21:43 <zib> fluffypony: Sure. But I would still expect it to be disabled by default. I'm not a fan of software, yet alone privacy sw, poking holes in a fw without asking. It's a minor thing but it causes an itch :D "Normal" People might not know that it's happening and their ISP or whatever can now see they use monero.
16:23:07 <moneromooo> You might be confused about what this does. Or alternatively I might.
16:23:27 <zib> it just forwards 18080
16:23:39 <moneromooo> In case it's me, can you explain why the use of this system would cause their ISP to see they use monero while they would otherwise not ?
16:24:36 <zib> Well scanning for 18080 isn't illegal but mitm/sniffing a customers traffic is in most places
16:24:47 <zib> Not saying it would happen. Just saying it shouldn't be default
16:24:53 <fluffypony> you don't even need deep packet inspection
16:25:04 <moneromooo> Emphasis on "while they would otherwise not".
16:25:13 <fluffypony> your ISP would know that you've got connections with a 18080 source port / destination port
16:25:18 <fluffypony> and that's enough
16:25:39 <zib> ok ISP was maybe a bad example. Let's say anyone instead :D
16:26:11 <moneromooo> Anyway, it doesn't poke holes. It asks the router to open it if it was configured to do so. Otherwise it won't.
16:26:38 <moneromooo> Now, some might be configured to do so by default, and that'd be a fair point.
16:26:49 <zib> I understand it's probably pointless. But there's still no reason for it to be default imho. Just like asking a client to "background mine" etc you could ask a client about this
16:26:57 <zib> moneromooo: You mean 99.9%? :D
16:27:06 <moneromooo> There is, you missed the reason above. Let me paste it...
16:27:15 <moneromooo> <@fluffypony> zib: I mean, upnp is trivially blocked on your router, and it's good for the network because it means more nodes with open inbound connections
16:27:26 <fluffypony> zib: you don't want to prevent a node from starting up because you require interactivity
16:27:30 <fluffypony> a wallet is different
16:28:05 <moneromooo> It's the same as IGD, right ? (fairly sure it is, just not 100% sure)
16:28:16 <zib> fluffypony: It doesn't have to be something that has to be configured on startup. I've never used the GUI wallet but i'm sure you can get some prompt
16:28:42 <zib> moneromooo: So we're assuming all users know or can disable upnp in their router?
16:28:59 <fluffypony> we're assuming that anyone who is sensitive about it has disabled it on their router
16:30:01 <fluffypony> lots of software (eg. Bittorrent, media servers, VMS for security cameras) uses UPNP so it's not even out of the ordinary
16:30:43 <zib> I know. And alot of easy to hack chinese webcams. Doesn't mean you can't be different :D
16:31:06 <xrv0[m]> Is there such a thing as proof of funds in monero?
16:31:27 <moneromooo> You can prove your wallet balance is >= some threshold.
16:31:40 <moneromooo> At a given height.
16:31:59 <xrv0[m]> Do you have a link to some documentation?
16:32:04 <moneromooo> No.
16:32:27 <xrv0[m]> Ah, it's called proof of reserve
16:32:29 <xrv0[m]> thanks
16:32:54 <moneromooo> Running those commands in monero-wallet-cli without any params should hopefully give you a synopsis.
16:33:07 <moneromooo> {get,check}_reserve_proof I think.
16:33:34 <zib> Oh well. You probably thought this trough but i'm never going to like it :D
16:33:40 <zib> fluffypony: More important. Did you get the LMX yet?
16:34:34 <fluffypony> yes - but not received yet, will only be later in the year
16:34:39 <fluffypony> v. excited
16:35:13 <zib> :)
16:35:26 <zib> I reserved also. But if covid drags out longer they can't hold it
16:36:28 <Metamorphosis> does this channel support faucet or beg?
16:37:24 <xrv0[m]> i think there is a faucet bot.
16:37:38 <Metamorphosis> .beg
16:37:38 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: OOPS! 30 min penalty. 13 hours to go.
16:44:55 <Mochi101> .beg
16:44:56 <Wallet> Mo​chi101: How long is the str​ing DGD
16:44:59 <Mochi101> 3
16:45:00 <Wallet> Mochi101: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000066 XMR to Mochi101 [f6b18a5f] Wait ≈23 hrs 54 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01682011
16:45:07 <Mochi101> .faucet
16:45:08 <Wallet> Mochi101: OOPS! 30 min penalty. 24 hours to go.
16:45:19 <Mochi101> what... they're the same?
16:45:49 <mfoolb> .faucet
16:45:50 <Wallet> m​foolb: Twins are how ma​ny
16:45:54 <mfoolb> 2
16:45:55 <Wallet> mfoolb: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000035 XMR to mfoolb [97fd73b8] Wait ≈23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01681661
16:46:19 <mfoolb> .balance
16:46:19 <Wallet> mfoolb: • Your balance is: 0.00646654 XMR (≈2.99 USD)
16:46:45 <Mochi101> .balance
16:46:45 <Wallet> Mochi101: • Your balance is: 0.0000218 XMR (≈0.01 USD)
16:59:45 <azy> .faucet
16:59:45 <Wallet> azy: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000033 XMR to azy [1ec4a9ba] Wait ≈23 hrs 57 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01681331
16:59:59 <azy> .balance
17:00:00 <Wallet> azy: • Your balance is: 0.0002362 XMR (≈0.11 USD)
17:20:26 <parazyd> .beg
17:20:26 <Wallet> parazyd: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command.
17:20:28 <Wallet> p​arazyd: How many chars in flu​ng
17:20:32 <parazyd> 5
17:20:32 <Wallet> parazyd: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000033 XMR to parazyd [8346e58a] Wait ≈23 hrs 58 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01680781
17:20:46 <parazyd> How does this work?
17:20:53 <Metamorphosis> .balance
17:20:53 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: • Your balance is: 0 XMR
17:20:58 <Metamorphosis> Oh, I am poor
17:21:03 <parazyd> .faucet
17:21:03 <Wallet> parazyd: OOPS! 30 min penalty. 26 hours to go.
17:45:17 <Drgonz0> anyone declares crypto gain to CRA?
17:46:53 <SlyFerret> don't have to worry about gains if you hodl
18:09:47 <Metamorphosis> .duckcall
18:09:47 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: ・゜゜・。。​・゜゜(')> 🦆 'QUACK QUACK!!'
18:09:50 <Metamorphosis> .bang
18:09:50 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: YOU GOT HIM! Time: ≈3.08 sec Ratio: 3 of 3 Bullets: 1 of 2
18:09:58 <Metamorphosis> .reload
18:09:59 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: You're reloaded with 2 bullets & 2 treats.
18:10:02 <Metamorphosis> .bal
18:10:03 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: 0 XMR
18:10:15 <Metamorphosis> .bang
18:10:15 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: WTDuck you shootin at? They'll come when they're ready or try .duckcall
18:10:18 <Metamorphosis> .reload
18:10:19 <Wallet> Metamorphosis: You're reloaded with 2 bullets & 2 treats.
18:10:19 <nioc> Metamorphosis: please not in this channel
18:10:25 <Metamorphosis> ok. sry
18:10:48 <nioc> you can do it directly with wallet or in #tippero
18:15:22 <moneromooo> o_O
18:21:34 <botcoinnotbot[m]> hey, when adding a peer to the monerod.conf file you im guessing you dont have to add the "--"  right?
18:21:34 <botcoinnotbot[m]> thanks
18:22:30 <moneromooo> Yes.
18:22:59 <selsta> add-peer=IP
18:23:25 <parazyd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klGWvRsLQKU
18:23:35 <selsta> or add-priority-node=IP
18:23:56 <botcoinnotbot[m]> thanks! btw another noob question here, do I have to do anything special in order to connect to onion nodes
18:24:23 <moneromooo> Yes, run a tor server.
18:24:42 <moneromooo> You'll also want to run --tx-proxy, see ANONYMITY_NETWORKS.md for details.
18:24:53 <parazyd> Also https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/tor_wallet.html
18:24:57 <moneromooo> There's a script in contrib/tor or so which does it.
18:26:10 <botcoinnotbot[m]> last question, are there any high bandwidth performance nodes you would recommend for an initial sync?
18:27:28 <selsta> no
18:27:35 <selsta> just increase out_peers
18:27:48 <selsta> it should saturate your bandwidth to the point that the bottleneck is somewhere else
19:00:54 * botcoinnotbot[m] uploaded an image: (151KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QpMDFEFapdcCMOVNFOXTFrxw/Screenshot%202021-05-09%20at%2020.00.28.png >
19:01:02 <botcoinnotbot[m]> hey, should i be worried about this
19:02:32 <moneromooo> Of course.
19:05:03 <selsta> botcoinnotbot[m]: what script is this?
19:05:12 <selsta> also which OS?
19:05:26 <selsta> it says shasum command not found which should be installed everywhere
19:08:08 <moneromooo> shasum ? Or sha256sum ?
19:08:29 <moneromooo> "sha" is underspecified
19:09:03 <Mochi101> sha++
19:09:17 * botcoinnotbot[m]  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oiDwCMenKVfcjbfjTUNBtBtJ/message.txt >
19:15:46 <selsta> botcoinnotbot[m]: `shasum --version`
19:15:54 <selsta> what does this return on your system?
19:16:30 <yanmaani> run alias shasum=sha256sum and run again
19:17:02 <yanmaani> (run the command "alias shasum=sha256sum", then run ./download_monero_binaries.sh again)
19:17:41 <selsta> the script uses `shasum -a256` which should work fine on debian
19:18:01 <selsta> at least it works on my ubuntu VPS
19:18:03 <Bill48105> games should be disabled on Wallet in here now
19:18:08 <yanmaani> works on mine too
19:18:17 <yanmaani> o yeah, maybe just try to install shasum
19:18:53 <selsta> sethsimmons: ^
19:25:49 * botcoinnotbot[m]  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ESorRlEqmbhPrOJfAKhSPuMb/message.txt >
19:27:55 <botcoinnotbot[m]> i did alias `shasum=sha256sum` but i still get the tampered message
19:28:09 <selsta> don't do alias shasum=sha256sum
19:28:21 <Duvio> .faucet
19:28:23 <selsta> or wait
19:28:23 <Wallet> D​uvio: How ma​ny letters in heat
19:28:25 <Duvio> 4
19:28:27 <Wallet> Duvio: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000046 XMR to Duvio [ae27d019] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01676991
19:29:01 <selsta> botcoinnotbot[m]: change shasum -a256 to sha256sum in this file: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sethsimmons/ad5848767d9319520a6905b7111dc021/raw/download_monero_binaries.sh
19:43:06 <botcoinnotbot[m]> was having same issue after changing to sha256sum, so i went back to using ubuntu and it was fine
19:45:47 <selsta> not sure what exactly is different on debian
20:03:54 <ocb> exceptions happening randomly, rarely. last time happened when connecting to a remote node. https://termbin.com/ghcp
20:07:48 <moneromooo> Use your own node.
20:08:41 <botcoinnotbot[m]> sorry for all of the questions, but when i add a peer to the config file (add-peer=) and then try to start monerod it says `Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081`
20:09:37 <moneromooo> Is your daemon running on that machine and that port ?
20:09:45 <moneromooo> er, wait
20:09:51 <moneromooo> monerod says that ?
20:12:20 <yanmaani> where can you buy domain names for monero?
20:12:42 <selsta> njal.la
20:13:40 <ocb> moneromooo: i am already using my node.
20:13:54 <ocb> moneromooo: my node which is remote node.
20:14:09 <ocb> that log is from the node.
20:15:05 <yanmaani> selsta: anything else?
20:15:31 <ocb> moneromooo: other than that, monerod is running well ~2tb upload in 3 weeks
20:15:49 * botcoinnotbot[m]  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/YMCRyywemDeHJVavYKQnVSqm/message.txt >
20:16:03 <ocb> that log is from monero-wallet-rpc
20:16:24 <ocb> as for the monerod i can't see anything related in the log (until i increase verbosity (maybe))
20:17:10 <moneromooo> OK. Is it a slow connection ?
20:17:17 <moneromooo> Slow or unreliable.
20:17:44 <ocb> dedicated 1gbps, unreliable no as it's 95% percentile is about 300mbps
20:18:00 <moneromooo> And is it synced ? Syncing would take the main blockchain mutex for long periods of time, which would stop most RPC.
20:18:28 <ocb> at the moment of the error i am not sure if it was fully synced. i will check logs.
20:20:49 <ocb> moneromooo: it is fully synced. i assume more verbose logs will be needed, will restart daemons for more logs a bit later.
20:21:12 <ocb> the last log related to sync i see it 2021-05-09 18:27:41.069 [P2P7]  INFO    global  src/cryptonote_core/blockchain.cpp:1247 REORGANIZE SUCCESS! on height: 2357325, new blockchain size: 2357327
20:21:24 <ocb> but i assume that should be ok
20:21:30 <ocb> nvm, will get back with more logs
20:21:35 <moneromooo> Seems fine, yes.
20:24:47 <moneromooo> Unexpected recv fail is typically a timeout.
20:27:40 <ocb> will keep an eye on it
22:11:02 <thommy> so what is the current status of atomic swaps?
22:12:27 <moneromooo> People are working on it. At least two teams/projects.
22:12:28 <kayabaNerve> PoCs exist, along with a testnet MVP by COMIT. Work on the full suite is being done by Farcaster, still.
22:30:16 <synaps3> what is recommended configuration for solo mining monero ?
22:31:58 <moneromooo> Fast Ryzen, lots of cache.
22:32:19 <moneromooo> There is a site called monerobenchmark.something IIRC, probably com.
22:32:34 <moneromooo> with an s too probably
22:33:06 <moneromooo> You may want to use xmrig, which can mine to monerod, and is faster than monerod.
22:34:56 <apotheon> synaps3: Also, use a pool that is not a significant percentage of the total mining on the Monero network, and consider trade-offs between connecting your mining rig via anonymity network (I2P or Tor) for privacy versus clearnet for less latency.
22:35:32 <moneromooo> Pool selection is not relevant for solo mining.
22:35:40 <apotheon> Oh, solo mining.
22:35:44 <apotheon> I missed "solo".
22:35:53 <apotheon> I *just* woke from a nap.  Sorry.
22:35:57 <moneromooo> Don't worry, all stormtroopers also did.
22:36:12 <apotheon> I was just going to make a Star Wars joke.
22:36:22 <apotheon> . . . but I'm slow, with this whole nap issue.
22:36:36 <moneromooo> Carbonite too ?
22:36:47 <apotheon> couch, actually
22:36:58 <apotheon> It's one of those couches where the ends recline, though.
22:37:22 <apotheon> I think I'm going to call it an "accleration couch" from now on.
22:37:43 <apotheon> except without missing a letter
22:38:08 <moneromooo> You wrote too fast.
22:38:14 <apotheon> indeed
22:39:19 <apotheon> synaps3: I think another good recommendation, for Solo mining, is to give your mining rig the hostname "slave1".
22:39:47 <Doomer> hehehe or "botnet11546"
22:40:48 <apotheon> 1138
22:41:48 <thommy> kayabaNerve where can I find whitepapers/resources, i tried looking but I can't seem to find any execept some lonely github repos or newssites
22:43:05 <kayabaNerve> The original WP is on h4sh3d's GitHub at https://github.com/h4sh3d/xmr-btc-atomic-swap/blob/master/whitepaper/xmr-btc.pdf. The first PoC was https://github.com/MerosCrypto/asmr/ (full disclaimer; it's mine).
22:43:54 <kayabaNerve> Farcaster design docs are at https://github.com/farcaster-project/RFCs/. Core libs are https://github.com/farcaster-project/farcaster-core.
22:45:01 <kayabaNerve> Can't comment on COMIT though
22:45:14 <kayabaNerve> Oh. Farcaster does do monthly updates on Reddit
22:46:38 <yanmaani> would it be possible to do pooled mining in a decentralized way by doing something like p2pool but with a layer 2 solution?
22:46:52 <yanmaani> with p2pool, the situation is basically you have a gearing ratio, right
22:47:24 <yanmaani> so if main chain has 10 minutes/block, sharechain has 1 minute per block say, so you need 10x less work to find a block
22:47:28 <yanmaani> but the problem is there's a lower limit
22:48:01 <yanmaani> but say you get together with a friend to mine, 50/50, blocks of the sharechain
22:48:06 <yanmaani> then you can get a gearing ratio of 20x
22:48:43 <yanmaani> so you'd send him all the shares you find, and vice versa, and then you'd publish it to sharechain once you got something big enough
22:49:51 <yanmaani> (and you'd demand that the sharechain template was to pay 50% to you and 50% to him, and ensure that was true in the shares you saw)
22:50:13 <yanmaani> This reduces the problem to a simple "who goes first", which I think could be solved in other ways.
22:51:08 <thommy> kayabaNerve: so what you are saying is that the protocol has been decided, the mathematical theory is sound, and now the only work left is the implementation?
22:51:21 <kayabaNerve> better implementations
22:51:27 <kayabaNerve> feasible ones
23:02:37 <thommy> what about economic considerations? what if a large number of bitcoin sellers want to buy monero but there are not enough moneros being offered - who gets to execute trades? how are prices set?
23:03:46 <sech1> supply and demand
23:04:22 <synaps3> apotheon, i'd solo mine
23:04:26 <synaps3> for the network :D
23:04:28 <sech1> if there is not enough monero to sell at current price, price goes up
23:05:26 <synaps3> buy low sell high
23:13:43 <apotheon> synaps3: cool
23:14:07 <apotheon> synaps3: I wasn't sure whether you were looking for profit, or what.
23:14:49 <apotheon> I kinda feel like Monero's worth mining even if you just break even on purchasing power.
23:15:21 <synaps3> i wanna support the network
23:15:24 <synaps3> i really like monero
23:15:31 <apotheon> cool
23:15:37 <synaps3> best cryptocurrency imo
23:16:19 <synaps3> what is purchasing power ?
23:16:42 <apotheon> breaking even on purchasing power is . . .
23:17:03 <apotheon> before: I have enough fiat currency to buy thirty pieces of pie.
23:17:10 <apotheon> after: I have enough Monero to buy thirty pieces of pie.
23:19:23 <apotheon> synaps3: Basically, purchasing power is how much of common commodities your collection of currency denominations can buy.
23:19:46 <synaps3> aha got it
23:19:47 <anonmon777[m]> <throwd "anonmon777 well I guess if it's "> That would be the best way. Why do you think a wallet with founds would be problematic?
23:24:42 <thommy> apotheon: the current issue is: i know where to buy thirty pieces of pie with fiat. i dn't know where i can spend my moneros....
23:24:42 <Lyza> converting electric bill to Monero is pretty dope even at like, a 90$ return
23:24:47 <Lyza> 90%*
23:25:36 <thommy> apotheon: and the amount of goods that you can buy depends on locale
23:27:22 <anonmon777[m]> You have to ask your hairdresser, driver, employee, etc.
23:28:39 <apotheon> Lyza: Measure the purchasing power at the time you use it, I guess.
23:28:43 <apotheon> thommy: true
23:28:48 <apotheon> It's a difficult calculation.
23:32:09 <thommy> Yeah, but convincing someone, even technical ppl, is not easy. I'm trying to teach a friend how to use monero and maybe I'll be lucky and convince him to buy some.
23:33:19 <Doomer> how to convince normies to buy crypto 101 : step 1: tell him "it will make you rich" . step 2: ... step 3: profit?
23:33:33 <thommy> If i could pay my bills with moneros that would be so peak
23:34:06 <Doomer> You have enough to pay your bills?
23:35:45 <throwd> anonmon777[m] Well you'd need to unlock your wallet each time you needed to sign something. If you're running an RPC server and your wallet is unlocked and someone else could interact with it then they'd also have access to your funds (I don't knwo what the RPC server provides). Just seems better to seperate 2 valuable things, your passwords, and your funds
23:36:02 <throwd> It's also what they reccomend in the video on their page
23:36:38 <thommy> Doomer: thats exacly what i've been doing. "I told him: remember when i told you to buy? and you didn't? look at the price now!"
23:36:57 <Doomer> thommy and it worked?
23:39:29 <thommy> Doomer: nah, I'm not exacly rich lol, i like the technology and idea behind moneros
23:40:12 <thommy> Doomer: It's still a work in progress, I hope that I can convince him to install it this week
23:41:25 <Doomer> thommy same. i was fascinated by the blockchain as a technology and as a potentially alternative for our economic system in the far future.
23:41:43 <Doomer> yet i dont actually own any.
23:42:06 <thommy> but I think he was receptive to the concept when I explained the benefits
23:42:08 <Doomer> cause it's practically illegal in my country
23:42:52 <throwd> We won't tell your government if you get some monero
23:42:56 <thommy> It's (still) in my country :)
23:43:24 <thommy> I think I maybe should start to mine some...
23:43:57 <throwd> You should, it's pretty straightforward
23:44:15 <apotheon> thommy: Convince people you don't even know to use it by offering some goods or services payable in Monero.  In fact, if you provide goods and services somehow, offer them at a discount if the client/customer pays in Monero.
23:44:16 <Doomer> throwd well the thing is it pretty hard to get your hand on any. the only way i know of is either if you have relatives from outside the country or if you trust a shady local
23:44:42 <Doomer> who would 99% scam you
23:45:06 <thommy> thowd: but I only have old PCs so I'm not sure if i even get to mine anything at all
23:45:39 <apotheon> thommy: If you know of local entrepreneurs running lifestyle businesses, and you need their goods or services, offer to pay in Monero at current exchange rates, and point out that cryptocurrencies tend to gain value relative to fiat currency over time, so that they can actually profit from taking Monero.
23:45:47 <throwd> I had some old parts laying around and I used them to start mining. The returns were bad compared to the power used, but it was an exercise that I found enjoyable and lead me to buying newer equipment for it
23:46:28 <Doomer> throwd wanna sell me some monero in exchange for our national worthless shit currency?
23:46:56 <throwd> You make it sound so appealing lol
23:47:31 <Doomer> it's so worthless they decided to not integrate us into paypal
23:47:56 <apotheon> Doomer: I think 98% is more realistic, by the way.
23:48:40 <Doomer> yeh 98% would scam me the other 2% would sell at an extraordinary inflated price
23:49:02 <apotheon> Well . . . just sit on it a while and Monero value may climb past that point.
23:49:32 <throwd> Are there any electronic sites that take monero?
23:49:38 <apotheon> I say all this stuff, but I know it's difficult to actually do some of it.  I struggle with it, too.  Those are the most straightforward ways I know to pursue the stated goals, though, combined with the mining option.
23:49:47 <thommy> apotheon: that's actually an excellent idea; it's called "the good currency drives the bad one out of business"; at this point in history I'm waiting for the prommised hyperinflation due to central banks printing money like crazy and increasing monetary supply to never before seen levels - it's just a question of when ppl will notice their fiat is wothless
23:49:48 <apotheon> throwd: yes, one moment
23:49:53 <apotheon> throwd: I'll find the link.
23:50:01 <Doomer> sorry for being butthurt but this week a guy was sentenced to prison in my country JUST for owning cryptos
23:50:14 <throwd> How did they find out?
23:50:20 <throwd> Is there a news article maybe?
23:50:23 <apotheon> throwd: https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/
23:50:26 <Doomer> the guy was selling it
23:50:27 <throwd> Thank you apotheon
23:50:29 <Doomer> yes
23:50:37 <apotheon> throwd: not a wide range of useful stuff, but there's definitely stuff
23:51:07 <Doomer> the thing is we dont even have a law about cryptos,  they arrest them for "owning foreign currency"
23:51:14 <Doomer>  which is illegal in here
23:51:30 <apotheon> About mining at a "loss", though, it's also worth considering the fact that the loss can be reversed by expected increases in the ratio of Monero purchasing power to fiat currency purchasing power.
23:51:30 <louipc>  tunisia?
23:51:36 <Doomer> unless you're one of the few who are allowed
23:51:37 <Doomer> yes
23:51:52 <thommy> oof for owning foreign currency
23:51:59 <apotheon> It just takes time for that ratio to change enough to overcome the inefficiency of mining with suboptimal hardware and electricity prices.
23:52:03 <louipc> i heard there was some foreign crypto mining business operating there too
23:52:30 <louipc> yea one of the few allowed
23:52:32 <apotheon> I've been to Tunisia, in the mid-1990s.  It was an interesting experience.
23:52:36 <Doomer> that's the thing foreigners are allowed, locals not so much at least legally
23:52:50 <apotheon> I did not go to the parts of Tunisia in travel agency posters.
23:52:57 <Doomer> where did you go?
23:52:58 <louipc> thats tough man not sure what to say
23:53:23 <apotheon> Doomer: somewhere inland, in shepherd country; dunno even where on a map it was
23:53:26 <louipc> the ppl need to assert the rights they wish to have... or escape if they can
23:53:44 <apotheon> Doomer: I was US military at the time, and doing some joint training stuff with Tunisian special operations units.
23:53:47 <Doomer> louipc not enough people care.
23:54:00 <Doomer> apotheon when was that?
23:54:04 <Doomer> pre 2011?
23:54:08 <louipc> Doomer: or scared
23:54:10 <apotheon> yeah
23:54:16 <apotheon> 23:52 < apotheon> I've been to Tunisia, in the mid-1990s.  It was an interesting experience.
23:54:38 <apotheon> It was only a few days.
23:54:41 <Doomer> louipc neh not scared.  luckily tunisia is a long way from that past
23:54:56 <louipc> Doomer: people are even scared in canada
23:55:05 <throwd> In Canada!?
23:55:18 <louipc> yes
23:55:25 <throwd> What's going on in Canada
23:55:27 <Doomer> tunisia is political anarchy but not in authoritarianism no more
23:55:42 <louipc> scared of prison or fines
23:55:49 <throwd> For crypto?
23:55:49 <louipc> throwd: pandemic authoritarianism
23:55:52 <Doomer> prisons for cryptos?
23:56:06 <louipc> im just saying ppl generally scared of authority
23:56:14 <throwd> I don't know too much about that. I've heard that you get slapped with fines for going outside
23:56:47 <louipc> throwd: yea but also a canadian crypto exchanged was subpoenaed for all users personal data
23:56:52 <louipc> they are doing that too
23:57:37 <apotheon> louipc: Was that a fishing expedition, or were they looking for some specific person?
23:57:50 <louipc> its all part of the money grubbing tax systems allover the world
23:57:54 <apotheon> . . . or pretending to look for some specific person to get access to a bunch of data for fishing expeditions?
23:58:12 <throwd> Is requesting data for all users legal in Canada?
23:58:17 <louipc> apotheon: dragnet i think
23:58:22 <apotheon> throwd: good question
23:58:38 <apotheon> I'm not clear on the relevant legal situation in Canada.
23:58:42 <louipc> they dont care about laws
23:58:51 <apotheon> I don't think I've been to Canada since the '80s.
23:59:12 <throwd> If it isn't legal, they could have a loophole for money laundering or something
23:59:29 <throwd> I've only been to Canada once it was nice. I was surprised how clean it was
23:59:36 <throwd> I even saw someone sweeping a sidewalk lol