That's the plan, anyway.

think most people understand using any service especially one in public channels has near zero implied privacy

Maybe I'll fat-finger something and screw it up.

Yeah, we're in a public channel here.

in this case bill's 'bot' is collecting information from people accross a bunch of networks

Privacy is necessarily limited.

again the bot can not see anything any other user cant

Bill48105, that's false

and pretty disingeneous I'd say.

pfft

as2333: Do you keep logs with your IRC client?

What's the diff?

or however you spell it

if "Bob" was in every channel you are in they Bob is exactly the same as the bot

s/disingeneous/disingenuous/

to answer the implied question

oh it looks like the bot hasn't actually "seen" my DMs here

could it be because it's an encrypted chat?

some platforms do restrict bots in some ways. like limiting access to certain thing

apotheon, yeah but I don't keep logs of every single place a bot like this one is in.

oh yeah sorry that does not work on matrix

i always forget about that

as2333: Some people are in that many channels.

your CLIENT may keep log

once you enable logging it likely logs every channel you're in

again don't say anything in a public channel you're concerned with privacy over.. same with using a fricken bot

apotheon, I'm not in logging many channels in many IRC networks, reddit, etc, which is what the bot does.

"I'm not logging many channels...."

think you are confused on how the bot works

like reddit.. the bot ONLY sees mentions to the bot or messages to the bot

as2333: I think you failed to differentiate between "some people" and "you".

I don't think so, it's a point about the breadth of collection I think.

as2333: Maybe you're only in two channels.

as2333: if you are that worried about a bot logging what you write, then you should never join a public channel ever

again the collection is no different than any user in the same places

what's to stop me from saving logs of everything?

Disk space ?

^^

apotheon, well yes. There may be a few people who log as much as they can.

lol

well, it's just text... compression does wonders for it

apotheon, so notice the attitude here? It's kinda entertaining.

if you say anything in channels you should assume someone logged it. period

i assume freenode logs shit too

as2333: Most people who have a client that logs end up logging everything in every channel they're in whenever they're in those channels.

apotheon, yes. And you think that's the same as running a bot like bill's?

the part that bothers me is you're accusing me of nefarious and malicious behavior

in fact, the matrix bridge pretty much logs and keeps everything ever, and anyone can see all history since they joined

Bill48105, indeed.

well you can gfy too then eh

as2333: yes, it is exactly the same

endor00[m], it obv isn't.

it's not my fault you don't grasp the obvious. YOU'RE IN PUBLIC CHANNELS

Not quite the same. All the PM stuff is different, and that includes addresses and links between networks.

But it's opt in, so...

apotheon, notice the attitude, "you don't have privacy in so called 'public' places" ?

right im not insane

you aren't?

as2333: it obviously is. The only thing that I can't see is PMs between users

hate to see you walk around on public streets wonder who's listening to you say things

nothing requires you to use the bot.. you don't need to give it your email, ever deposit coins, ever withdraw coins.. ever pm it..

as2333: What's the difference, exactly? Please explain how that's different from having your client idle in all those channels with logging turned on.

as2333: A bot is just a client that sometimes does things without the owner typing something.

in fact if you request it you can be added to the bot ignore list in which case what you say in channels isn't even seen by the bot let alone stored

apotheon, a bot is a centralized system that collects info on whoever uses it.

so is irc

it's not the same as logging a few channels.

would you like to be added to the bot ignore list?

he's conflating monero's privacy features with the idea that a bot should somehow be "private" as well - which is faulty logic

i'm more than happy to add you

so much faulty logic it's painful

<as2333 "apotheon, a bot is a centralized"> but that's the thing about it: you don't have to use it

endor00[m], not what I'm doing and thank you for being my spokespeson - not

speaking of notice attitude..

anyway dinner calls. feel free to let me know if you'd like to be added to bot ignore list

do know that my client logs you still though ;)

as2333: So is your client.

apotheon, no it isn't.

as2333: A typical IRC bot is a single client process whose interface is not intended for direct client-side user interaction.

as2333: Like an IRC client such as irssi, it can run scripts.

I could, if I wished, install scripts in my client, irssi, that would do the same things bots do.

. . . because a bot is just a client with automation, in the ircbot context.

Dude you have multiple people telling you that you're wrong about this. Does that not make you wonder, even for a moment: "But what if I *am* wrong about this?"?

That is to say: if you can write a bot, you can write a user client exactly the same way, except for some interface details because of its intended use case.

endor00[m], lawl

a few members of the mob including one clearly biased is telling I'm wrong,. so I must be wrong

priceless argumentum ad populum

Not what I said :)

uh oh

anyway, good thing this is the channel for the only privacy coin out there

I have written a dicebot for IRC. I am a programmer. I know what I'm saying when I say a typical ircbot is just a client that is designed to run scripts, and not to provide a user-friendly interface -- otherwise just the same as a user client.

But glad to see your ego is safe from being questioned by anyone - yourself included

the bot supports Firo (formerly zcoin) too but yeah

.makeitrain

.wutang

.needmoney

is that bot not in here?

.cz

guess not

.help

apotheon: I'm a cool multi-coin multi-platform bot by Bill48105. Docs: bill48105.github.io/wallet | My core commands: .balance .deposit .faucet .ping .soak .tip .val .withdraw | .help <games|share|misc|other> to see others | .help <cmd> for more details.

i need to reduce the length of that help it's gotten longer than planned lol

does this one override monerobux, or was monerobux not in here?

<Visco> Interesting reading the talk about logging considering every channel is relayed here to discord

topkek indeed Visco

makes ya wonder if he's trolling or not thought things thru

yeah, there have been a few 'interesting' comments about discord too

"''"

let me get the best one

as2333: I favor privacy and so on as much as the next guy -- much more than the next guy, for most "guys", in fact. I like to know the technical realities so I can best prepare for defending my privacy, though, rather than imagine that just because Bill48105 is running a bot there must be an NSA agent spying on it 24/7, though.

<sgp_> jeez this convo above is simply depressing to read

<sgp_> just don't use Discord

as2333: . . . and I similarly don't assume that Bill48105 is *not* an NSA agent, either.

again notice the attitude

Im not but it's safer to assume am.

Bill48105: indeed

that's what prudent sane people do anyway

apotheon, he is spying 24/7

dunno

Are you?

apotheon: I don't assume that as2333 isn't the NSA agent ;)

the fact that other people are too isn't too relevant

apotheon, no I am not.

endor00[m]: Hah! I beat you to it.

dang ninjas

I bet you're the real agent

apotheon, I'm logged in a 2 or 3 channels some days, some hours per day.

Spying on me typing so you beat me to it

<as2333 "apotheon, I'm logged in a 2 or 3"> That's what a spy would say

"just don't use Discord"

"just dont use xxx"

I have 56 "windows" open in irssi right now. Probably about 45 of them are public channels. That's only one of several IRC client instances I have open; some are on other networks than freenode. I idle on all of them, rather than shut down my client when I walk away from the keyboard.

"everybody does it!!!1"

you have no privacy in 'public' places

etc

don't talk in a public place if you don't want the public to see it

etc

oh yeah, like an NSA agent couldn't figure out how to register a matrix account and join this channel LMAO

NSA? Morono protects me.

omg rupee[m] you don't value privacy!! kek

big brain opsec

tin foil is many layers thick on this one goin on about privacy in a public channel with 373 users bridged to multiple other platforms with 1000's of users..

rupee[m]: sweet monerobux was kicked from several channels

It's not the fault of the victim if someone victimizes the person, but for their own sakes people should make an effort to recognize the fact that some activities are naturally more dangerous than others, and talking about private things in public spaces is more dangerous than not doing so, regardless of whatever is the *ideal* condition you'd prefer.

The NSA join channels they want to log is a bit like a doctor operating on a patient with covid to remove every virus individually.

just in case, I didn't say bill is the NSA. What I said is he has the same attitude the nsa has.

To just get angry that someone is logging is to miss the point. If there's an understanding that logging is not culturally acceptable in a given channel, you shouldn't log there, but you also shouldn't assume nobody else is logging, and you should model your threats accordingly.

he and his supporters

i lost my nsa guidebook

as2333, pushing buttons since 2003

You left it on Tom's desk

as2333: What *exactly* is Bill48105 doing wrong?

He's littering Tom's desk with guidebooks.

existing

as2333: Am I doint something wrong for letting my client idle in the channel when I'm asleep?

s/doint/doing/

apotheon, I think my point is clear enough.

No, it's not.

too bad then

Okay, point not made. Congratulations.

^ NSA prolly

This channel is so private

NSA don't look at this public channel

Not allowed

so, can we talk about monerobux?

they were here, saw the convo and left

too boring

My impression is that as2333's point was "If you have a bot in the channel, you clearly hate privacy, and your bot is somehow broadcasting everything somewhere else, whereas client logs are only on the computer where the client is running." That's not really how it works, but that's how the argument looks to me.

monerobux is best bux

.ded

.rip monerobux

never heard of monderobux

bring em back

nioc: I'm actually inclined to think that may be true.

what did it do

(re: best bux)

.summon monerobux

Was it ever in this channel

<sgp_[m] "Was it ever in this channel"> maybe not

I speak only of the Monero cryptocurrency, though, not a bot.

sgp_[m]: oh, I think not

Yeah jw maintains it

ok. bye. going back to -markets

rupee[m]: beware I am also there

👋

I am in 37 irc channels

ur a data theif!

this is priceless:

ai.py

biden commit

Jan 24, 2021

apotheon, what I said is that the bot collects information from multiples networks 24/7. Which is not the same thing as one user logging a few channels while he's logged.

oshit

I expected that to be on one line.

multiple*

as2333 your impression about the bot is wrong

as2333: I collect information from multiple networks 24/7 because I have several clients running, each on its own network, and I leave my client idling there 24/7.

It's not run by Discord

apotheon, and?

What's the difference?

apotheon, you shouldn't be doing it that anyway.

^ needs more finger-wagging

Why not? If someone wants to say something to me when I'm not sitting in front of my keyboard, I still want to be able to see it when I get back.

It turns out IRC is not exactly sychronous. Sometimes an answer comes hours later.

apotheon, now what's your point?

Maybe your threat model needs to cover the potential that someone else collects info you make public in a public channel

. . . such as when I'm asleep.

as2333: My point is "Why not?" as I said above.

I don't think the impression is wrong. It's a quantitative difference.

You seem to think communication is not allowed except in short bursts.

apotheon, your point seems to be an attempt to gradually go from X to Y while ignoring that X and Y are different.

apotheon, a sophism

What are X and Y?

Well the Discord bot isn't run by Discord if that means anything

It's also not something anyone else can't do (save the PM stuff).

apotheon, X is logging a few channels. Y is logging a lot more of stuff in a lot of different networks.

I stand by my original statement, a public chat channel that you encrypt is like a library where everyone can check out any book they want but only if they are wearing a floofy pink hat.

as2333: What if I'm an active participant in those networks?

Am I only supposed to use one network?

apotheon, ....

I'm trying to figure out where I become an evil person in your definitions. It's not clear to me.

I have a pink hat but it's not floofy

knowledgewizard4: was that sarcasm ? I'm not getting it otherwise :D

my hat isn't pink :(

moneromooo: I think the idea is that it's a public channel, so encrypting it doesn't mean much, or something like that.

I have about 80 hats so....

nioc: Is your name Bartholomew?

apotheon, so you see no difference between bill or pepe running a system that collects information from a lot of different places and allows only him to access that information, and ocasional users ocasional logging a chnnnel while they are ocassionaly online?

apotheon: no :)

as2333: I do see a difference. The difference is that some people are more interested in IRC communications.

apotheon, ...

omg some monerians have even been over to my house

yeah man it's just like, "if you do these Three Annoying Tasks™️ - then you can be a part of our library which is public to everyone who does these Three Annoying Tasks™️"

as2333: What if you walk away from the keyboard for three minutes in the middle of a discussion to get a drink? Should you log out when you walk away, and log in when you get back?

as2333: How long should I be away from my keyboard, or just working in a different workspace on the computer, before I have to log out of every channel?

apotheon, you're right, there's no different between stealing 1 cent, or stealing 10 millions. Or not stealing at all.

difference*

Okay this conversation is boring and has no real relevance to Monero

Oh, so if I *blink*, I'm effectively stealing one cent, but if I walk away from the computer for an hour I'm stealing $36.

<as2333 "apotheon, so you see no differen"> how would you regulate the "critical mass of too much" that you are suggesting should be regulated?

. . . unless I log out.

I should log out every time I look away from the screen to avoid being a penny-thief.

sgp_, I didn't actually mean to ping you. But hey this is a 'public channel'

knowledgewizard4: What?

knowledgewizard4: Oh, never mind I get it.

It.... Is a public channel

or something

as2333: Should I log out of the channel if I stop to rub my eyes for a few seconds to avoid committing a micro-aggression?

apotheon, I think the way your sophism works is clear. And of course you didn't answer my question.

Maybe it's about time to pick another conversation

What was the question again?

back to watching cat videos, there is a very special channel with 7 years worth of videos and I have a long way to go yet

I'm having a difficult time finding question marks in your messages.

<apotheon "I'm having a difficult time find"> What color pink is your hat

dammit

found a bug in the client

knowledgewizard4: I'm noncompliant. My hat is black.

<apotheon "What was the question again?"> What color pink is your hat

apotheon, you see no difference between different degrees of...anything. Be it spying, 'logging' or anything else.

It does have some blue on it, though.

as2333: I see a difference between degrees.

i love the new pink it suits you beautifully

. . . but that still wasn't a question. It was an accusation.

apotheon, but the difference doesn't really mean anything.

as2333: I'm just trying to figure out if you *actually think it's immoral to not look at the screen for one full second without logging out*.

00:48 < as2333> apotheon, but the difference doesn't really mean anything.

Is that supposed to be a statement, or an accusation, or a question, or what?

Pls

I do think there is a difference between killing one person and killing one million people.

I'm loving brain cells

apotheon, it's a statement. I called your 'argument' a sophism a few times.

* I'm losing brain cells

as2333: No hate intended but literally how do you want to regulate the Too Much problem you are suggesting exists?

as2333: I don't know what you think is my argument.

as2333: The things you're saying don't seem to address anything I actually said.

apotheon, ....

as2333: If you could just answer one of my questions substantively, and refrain from accusing me of not answering questions that aren't even visible on the screen, I think we'd make some progress.

moneromooo pls this channel is unusable

Maybe you could convince me of something if you said something concrete and directly connected to something I said.

whatever

lost cause

time to be evil by not saying anything for a while but still being logged in

just less evil than if I do it for longer, with a bot

lawl

You two should DM each other for this convo, would be super cute

Jeez, can we like talk about Monero maybe? Get a room you two Haha

Has anyone used Kraken's new buy with bank account

Yes I have

Easy?

synapse method. Very easy

I went to my local branch with the wiring info. Cost me $30 . Funds appeared in Kraken mexty day. Bought Monero and withdrew

* I went to my local branch with the wiring info. Cost me $30 . Funds appeared in Kraken next day. Bought Monero and withdrew

I pmed you apotheon

With the wire info?

ugh

I thought I was done.

Yeah, when you select Synapse as the wording method, below they list which bank and all the info needed to wire to a bank account linked to Kraken

* Yeah, when you select Synapse as the wiring method, below they list which bank and all the info needed to wire to a bank account linked to Kraken

sgp_[m]: I tried using Kraken's thing, and it didn't work for some reason. I dunno. It wasn't obvious and straightforward when I looked at it.

It told me Synapse wasn't available.

sgp_ feel free to PM me. I've wired usd twice in the past two weeks. There are other wire methods listed as well...same process. Just bring to local branch in person

The fees are similar to Coinbase for buying BTC that way right?

I've only ever wired to/from Kraken

It depends on your bank. My bank charges $30 for every wire regardless of amount. If I upgrade my bank accounts (have to have a minimum balance across accounts) wiring is free. Check with your bank for sure

Sounds like Chase lol

* It depends on your bank. My bank charges $30 for every wire regardless of amount. If I upgrade my bank accounts (have to have a minimum balance of $7.5k across accounts) wiring is free. Check with your bank for sure

Lol

I set up a Fidelity connection for free wires to Kraken

That's beautiful

<mx_mandelbrot42[ "It depends on your bank. My bank"> Wait where do you get free wires for only $7.5k balance?

Chase is $150k for that

sgp_ People's United Bank

This is the WORST mobile website lol

That's a pretty solid account though, thanks for sharing

sgp_ absolutely!! :)

Are people interested in an open-source monero payment gateway, or btcpay-server good enough?

People use btcpay-server , but there are plenty of other options

See here: github.com/monero-integrations

Are you looking to contribute?

Someone asked for a bigcommerce integration recently

<anon_jasrjfbq "People use btcpay-server , but t"> I think btcpay-server is the only platform agnostic gateway. But you still need to create a plugin for whatever sales platform you're using - no way around that.

<angrymonkeyboi[m "Are people interested in an open"> yes people are interested

Tell me more please. What's missing from existing ones that you'd like to see?

All ecommerce websites allow you to have multiple payment options, so not sure why we need to rely on btcpay-server. I could be misinformed.

anon_jasrjfbq: If we don't rely on btcpay, what would you use instead of it?

Platform specific wallet integrations?

monero-wallet-rpc

what do you dislike bout BTCPAY?

I don't have a strong opinion about btcpay, I have never used it.

I know what I don't like

it's woocommerce plugin is a dumpsterfire. I'm surprised it works

I could/should rewrite that

One other thing I don't like is that it exposes all of that sensitive payment information behind a login-wall

so BTCPAY has different plugins for different ecommerce platforms? does it allow you a simple http or graphql endpoints for payments api?

That's just bad practice. That should be a on a different port. And not accessible by any IP

<donkeydonkey[m] "so BTCPAY has different plugins "> I'm sure it has an api. But the different ecommerce platforms still need to interact with it, so a plugin is needed to talk to the API

Yeah, btcpayserver has endpoints and packages in different languages.

I also don't like that it's creator refers to monero as a shitcoin ;( It will always be a second class citizen

<angrymonkeyboi[m "One other thing I don't like is "> do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?

There's also been demand for a Point of Sale system, do you want to work on that?

Taking a look

>do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?

Yeah that. I don't like that anyone can attempt to log in. It's too much surface area available for an attack

<anon_jasrjfbq "There's also been demand for a P"> t-900 already finished that, I think. If not, he's actively working on it

* >

do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?

Yeah that. I don't like that anyone can attempt to log in. It's too much surface area available for an attack

* >do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?

Yeah that. I don't like that anyone can attempt to log in. It's too much surface area available for an attack

* "do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?"

> Yeah that. I don't like that anyone can attempt to log in. It's too much surface area available for an attack

* "do you mean that you can login and see your payments and customers? or something else?"Yeah that. I don't like that anyone can attempt to log in. It's too much surface area available for an attack

Isn't this solvable through 2-factor auth?

Ohh shit. SOrry guys. I didn't realize my edits on matrix was spamming IRC

<anon_jasrjfbq "Isn't this solvable through 2-fa"> 2FA protects against password compromises and guesses, not an implementation bug

Is People's United the agreed upon best bank atm?

Fiat

<angrymonkeyboi[m ">do you mean that you can login "> as a shop owner its really useful to have an easy way to check on successful and failed payments linked to a customer

Shouldn't your ecommerce platform support that?

well it could but say like with woocommerce and stripe for CC payments. woocommerce doesnt have all the features of logging into stripe

<angrymonkeyboi[m "Shouldn't your ecommerce platfor"> and if the platform had all that info then its possible to exploit it like you worried about for the payment processor login

It could. Good platforms would have that info not exposed to the web either. I don't consider WooCommerce the paragon of good security :p

But even given thats the case, I'd rather have that info in one place and securing that instead of multiple places. Where WooCommerce has more eyes on it than btcpay-server

When Tari finally comes out, will you dump your Monero to buy it? Will others?

Hi community, unfortuantely I had yesterday a break ( using c&p for add information to the chat). Could you give me please an advisement about the installation of monero to a RaspberryPi4. The installation on the card has been done succeccfully in a Debain Buster system and "make" has been done successfully but in this configuration there is the file .bitmonero missing. After this I Debain system has been installed new and

monero has been added again, by starting the make order the same issue will be displayed in HOME> no .bitmonero folder. The monerod is not running. Is this a known issue ??? Thanks for advisement

i wanted to try out monero, i setup a gui wallet, left xmrig running on a weak box all night, the wallet is still empy with no pending or anything? i will paste any log/info you need for debugging

Oh it WILL be empty for quite some time, until you reach payout limit. Check pending balance on your pool's dashboard.

how do i check the pool's dashboard?

where is the pending balance?

does the dashboard look at your ip? because i'm mining from a different box which has no gui browser as well

hi what is a reliable online monero wallet which does not require me to run a node?

oshobaba, mymonero.com

Really great interview youtube.com/watch?v=8TdRor-xFp0 Is cryptozoidberg in this chat?

qay-12: run with --log-level 1, see if you get an error

Hi moneromooo, beg my pardon I`m on the start and at the moment I don't know what the meaning is of... run with --log-level 1 .....could you give me an advise how to do this or an information where I can get a tutorial ???

Add " --log-level 1" at the end of your monerod command.

moneromooo: ok ... I will do

moneromooo: feedback from the system .... bash: monoreod: command not found

<qay-12 "moneromooo: feedback from the sy"> its spelled monerod

alexanarcho[m]: Oh beg my pardon , you`re right.... was wrong typing of mine in the chat ...in the system it was written well

at the moment deleted the monero folder and get the files new from git

no worries :D

I think everyone here knows that most Monero exchange withdrawals and desposits are traceable (Breaking Monero - poisoned outputs). How does it feel to go out and lie to people that they are private and then earn less than holding BTC on your bag?

cant wait when btc is around 3k again and bitcoiners saying careful about buying it could fall to 1k

but please buy my bags at 50k, tell your family and friends its going to the moons of io

as much as I would like to believe your claims of btc falling

btc is too big to fail, just like tether

for mining, should i choose xmrig or xmr-stak? it seems like xmr-stack doesnt get updated much, is the project that stable or is it outdated?

Definitely xmrig, xmr-stack is made by a pretty dishonest person.

source? also i don't care, i could just fork it away as long as it's good code lol

github/xmrig/xmrig IIRC

"pretty dishonest"

latiers the linked article is about that dishonest person

ok, sure i get it bad person. how about the _software_ though? which is better (at what)? i don't automatically support him by using it

You risk an update getting malicious code being inserted. Don't be a rube. And IIRC he was lying about the performance.

Though that was a version in some booting OS IIRC, not sure it was the same softwre...

Anyway, if you're fine helping scammers, go for it I guess. If you read the code, it's probably ok.

>malicious update

yeah but lol look the last edit to the code it was over a year ago

never said wanted to help anybody, just looking around, i'm new here

Look, you ask. I reply. If you don't want the reply, don't ask.

moneromooo, well, good to know, thx for the info, are there any other potential miners you'd recommend besides xmrig? whether stand-alones or libraries?

latiers: pretty much all the miners I've spoken to use xmrig, so there's that

I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it;)

Xmrig +1

does anybody got numbers on monero nodes affected by the fire at ovh datacenters, if any?

ping them

pong

if response icmp is hot then they're affected

xmrig is the only miner getting regular updates afaik, including performance updates

have an amd radeon rx 550 gpu installed. OS is artix linux. could i boost monero mining somehow? currently only the cpu is being used for mining.

GPUs aren't really good for monero. You can maybe mine something else, and optionally exchange whatever you mine for monero if you want monero.

it's quite common to mine ETH on GPU while mining XMR on CPU

and then sell the ETH for more XMR

NBMiner is not detecting the amd gpu in artix linux. tried ravencoin.

not sure what package have to be installed to get the amd gpu detected by mining software...

for mining alongside the cpu, which is being used for monero mining.

you probably need the AMD OpenCL package

I haven't touched GPU mining in literally years

Has anyone used xmrigcc?

^ good one

yes

inb4 fluffy is satoshi

Why are you here? For the tech? Then you should be off at Zcash instead of trying to con newbies into a coin that doesn't work. For the money? If you put your money in BTC or ETH you would have been better off. For the magical crypto friends? Monero leadership laughs from losers like that. Find yourself more healthy realationships that don't laugh at you when they steal your money.

LoL that dude sure is persistent.. under radar of Sigyn too

never heard of zcash before. how come it's not shilled as much as monero?

are you serious? did you get into crypto yesterday?

Yeah, hard to believe, given the hype there was about it.

oh, fine then if it's just me

I remember it’s opening day, people bought the first ZCash at polo for like $1000 or whatever

Basically: Monero/zcash grassroots/corporate default-privacy/default-spytastic ringsigs-are-meh/much-better-privacy-in-theory no-premine/20%-dev-tax

Might be other salient differences I did not think of off the top of my head.

Oh, of course: trustless/trusted

Trustless setup / trusted setup

20%??? lol

Yeah. Which is OK by me since it was disclosed beforehand, but the attempt to redo it after the limited time only was a main argument really pushed it into the scammy side for me. Shrug.

Subjective.

zcash has a ritualistic setup performed by high ranking cryptopriests

Wait. Might have been 10%...

No, 20. Which mapped to 10% of the lifetime supply. A bit WTF, but disclosed, so honest.

The thing that I found sketch was the double talk, it was "we're super private" to people who like privacy, and "we're basically bitcoin" to people who don't.

if you put your share at 20 or even 10% you obviously don't believe in your project/product. if i were to make a coin i would be more than happy with 0.001%

Man I love these nice to blocks on

Whoops

Meant to say I am loving these blocks on the Monero blockchain that are packed with transactions. Love seeing this project being used

zcash was hyped so much that there were clones :D

The tx count rising gives me a real rewarding feeling

And yet, many creeps in pretty mych all governments are looking with rage at the people restoring the privacy they lost.

Fuck all of them.

tell us how you REALLY feel moo :D

fuck them indeed. and their gimps

Wow mooo didn’t know you felt such antagonism against the guv ;)

<3 govt

Only against those that want to spy on us.

like we <3 hemorrhoids

Well you’re in the right project!

I feel the same way about companies. Full of assholes ready to knife you for a profit.

!

$ > *

Basically anything made of enough humans becomes a toxic slime of fuckwittery.

Thanks for all the work you did integrating Sarangs Triptych btw

moneromooo: agreed

i remember someone on the internet saying they hacked into the gov and found out that there was in fact no gov, wish i could find it

moneromooo: I think I like you.

emsother[m]: Yeah, it turns out "government" is just a distraction from the fact that a bunch of people are doing shitty stuff.

i thought he meant something along the lines "the people are the government"

i mean, fbi exists only because the people want to feel protected, nah?

Right. But it's a bit more complex than that. People want to feel protected, but that also includes oppressing others if it makes them get an advantage.

And tbh I get where they're coming from. It's attractive.

ok so i see #monero-otc has like zero activity

So it slowly becomes about protection of the status quo, a subtle change.

different people have different 'opinions' - many people don't 'cosent' to be governed

any of the other channels have activity

19:37 < emsother[m]> i mean, fbi exists only because the people want to feel protected, nah?

"fbi exists only because the people want to feel protected" <--- obviously not

The FBI exists because bureaucrats convince people they need it.

To some extent, a govt is about a protection racket that's become so large that people just take it as granted.

You pay taxes, get protected.

moneromooo: yep

It's a gang, self-incorporated, arrogating unto itself the power to incorporate other gangs.

too bad taxation is theft, so paying taxes mans the opposite of being protected.

means*

If it sounds outlandish, consider cases were criminal orgs are very powerful. They become a bit like govts in practice.

Some fund schools, hospitals. Which get denounced as PR by the actual govts.

Now, they sure are typically pretty nasty, but they *will* become less so if the topple the current govt where they are and start acting like a govt.

also established in practice, yeah

Coming at it from another way, if you start making waves, your govt *will* start clamping down, and resort to violence if they can't get their way without it.

Actually . . .

I'm not sure they become less nasty.

<dhtwqhqzu "Why are you here? For the tech? "> so why are you here?

They just make the rules that determine what people are (culturally, at least) allowed to *call* "nasty".

It's a continuum really. And there's an attractor towads "most people agree that accepting this org's rule is better than not, because we get stability".

Did someone named dhtwqhqzu say something?

And that becomes a govt. Most countries are rooted in war and conquest.

oh, a long time ago

emsother[m]: That's just a spammer/hater who already left.

Only time makes it ebb away.

And sometimes, a lot of time.

moneromooo: Do you mind if I PM you?

Ah, yes. It started with "people want to feel protected". Yes, they do. And being protected is not 100% congrument with justice, in an "ethics" sense.

More like being protected against their condition becoming worse, even if their condition was based off someone else's condition being worse in the first place.

Hence the protection of the status quo I mentioned earlier.

But... interestingly (or disgustingly I guess), the status quo regarding privacy is inexorably changing.

I guess I should take that as "yes, I mind" or "I have you on ignore for some reason".

Our privacy has been dismantled over the years, inexorably. There's a constnat march towards stripping us of our private life.

And that really pisses me off.

I approve of the moneromooo position, even if I'm on /ignore . . .

At some point there's got to be a turning point, but we haven't got there yet, for some reason. It looks like privacy is pretty much dead in practice, and poeple haven't really cared.

Why ? Beats me. Guess maybe because so many people are hand to mouth, and focus on the more immediate issue.

apotheon: you're not in my /ignore list if that's what you mean. I don't think you've been an asshole repeatedly, which is usually my threshold.

lack of privacy is just another aspect of totalitarianism. It isn't new...

Anyway, I got a few drinks in me, and I tend to rant. Sorry :)

moneromooo: I guess you just missed my question, then. Do you mind if I send a PM to you?

moneromooo: I liked this rant.

It expresses some of my own thoughts/feelings pretty well.

I don't. As long as it's not "how do I create monero fork genesis block" I get every so often :D

har

no problem with that

moneromooo, what 'public opinion' says about privacy is heavily influenced by propaganda. There are people who go along with all the fascist circus willingly, but others don't.

Hi community, I have some problems to run the monerd (--log-level 1) on RaspberryPi 4 and a Laptop . On Pi a 8GB Ram 64bit arm Debian Buster is install and on the Laptop a 32 bit version of Buster. In both installations is the .bitmonero file missing and both systems are running in to an error if monerod will be started. The error is bash: monerod: command not found. On Pi the make file has been started with make -j4 release

on the laptop with make -j2 release. Could you give me please some advisement ???

That's one thing that pisses me off. For me, monero is about protecting oneself from the fascist govts that will almost certainly happen, given history. And yet, fools are concerned the alt right is using it, not realizing they will need it when Hitler 2.0 comes.

Moneromooo: what’s the drink? Are you a beer or spirits kind of guy?

qay: are you familiar with linux /

?

qay: either your build didn't succeed or you're not in the right folder to execute it

hey mooo how do i create monero fork genesis block :D

:o

Head down, horns horizontal

Speed up

qay: You've gotta give the path to the binary. ie, ./monerod or ./build/Linux/release/bin/monerod or wherever it is.

moneromooo : a little bit , for daily work it is enough but in the crypto world I 'm a nebie

charolastra: I tried to started the monerod from home folder from monero folder as root as user... in which directory I have to switch to start the monerod ?

pardon .... in folder build too

You start it from wherever you like, it doesn't matter. Just give the path as you would any other binary.

moneromooo, yeah. And hitler 2.0 is going to look slightly different when all of the cars, houses, 'appliances' toilets and everything else is connected to network and remote controlled by govcorp.

Except those in $PATH of course but you get the idea.

to +the network

I guess the reference might have been missed by some:

you could start by running 'find ~ -name monerod'. it will tell you the location

In WW2, the nazis were able to round up most jews in... some nordic country, can't recall which, by just looking in govt databases.

And that fucking scares me, because (1) the world as a whole is veering towards fascism fast and (2) pretty much everything is being recorded and privacy's at a historic low.

It's just not right, and the fucking blindness of people is just coming like a train in a tunnel

moneromooo: Yeah, that's the crux of the matter.

It's really trading short term police efficiency vs future life.

There's a fucking reason why there are curbs on police powers. Or should be.

Most people in the US who are (supposedly) concerned about fascism don't realize it's ascendant in both of the biggest political parties, too.

qay: last comment was for you ^^

qay: To build upon what charolastra said, you could try this to run it:

qay: `find ~ -name monerod`

qay: Include the backticks around it. If that doesn't work, the problem is something else.

charolastra: ok ... I found /root/.bitmonero ect but if I add monerod the system give an error message : command not found

qay: hmm, that doesn't seem right. how did it end up in a hidden folder of the root account?

on both systems the same ... strange

thats

Pretty sure this directory is because monerod ran previously. And thus, the claim not to find monerod seems... odd.

I originally said to add --log-level 1 to the monerod command line. This should not cause moenrod to suddenly not be found anymore.

moneromooo: I did this but same error as without the --log....

i'm of the opinion that qay should reinstall the whole OS. running random stuff from the internet with root privileges is a big NONO

no kidding

Yeah, running as root is not a good idea. But then it's a rpi so there's just going to be monerod on it anyway.

qay: you did post monerod logs before, so clearly it was found.

Adding "--log-level 1" to the command line will not cause monerod to be not found.

oh, missed that part, right. still rather suspicios

Unless you did something like delete it etc. But then you should not :)

ok ... I think the better way is to reinstall the systems new and try to start from scratch . Thanks for advisment today to charolastra and moneromooo

i'm getting a lot more host blocked on my node recently. how bout u guys?

omega: 131

right