You will DO what Monero tells you to do. You will JUMP when you are told to jump. And most importantly you will DISCONNECT whoever Scientology^H^H^H^H^H I mean Mnero tells you to disconnect. Otherwise you WILL end up like lh1008 here:

monerologs.net/monero-community/20210114#c181614 And you will do it all for FREE. Because Monero is open souce :D Just like Linux is there to pay for $700k watches that Torvalds wears.

damn that Torvalds!

lol

A quick, possibly silly question about Monero's tech: Would it be possible to use monero tech for anonymous elections, big or small? Like if one used a separate network and funded accounts for all voters. Then the voters could transfer their "vote" to their favourite candidate's account. The winner of the election would be the account with most moneros. Is it doable?

probably

I wouldn't trust anything like that. For one the end points are going to be vulnerable and not many people will confirm their votes, and two (I am not familiar with this) would there be any way to make sure everyone gets their exact amount of votes?

It might even be *more* private, because there would be far fewer vote "values" possible than Monero transaction values, so they'd be more difficult to distinguish.

wrinkle_hut[m]: I would think making sure everyone gets the right number of votes would be as easy as just building the protocol to allow for a single vote token to be generated and sent to all wallet nodes on the network simultaneously.

Then, you just make sure that votes still in wallets "expire".

Of course, that might make votes private, but perhaps not the fact of whether you voted or not.

true, and then you would need to make sure everyone has exactly one wallet, so I imagine there would need to be a centralization for those certain parts of it, although, making sure everyone gets it and not just say 98% (except a few percent target demographic) would probably be something that people would need to keep a keen eye out for?

Yeah, something like that.

Cool. Thanks :)

I still don't know if I would trust anything unless the hardware was extremely open and well audited and even then personally I am spooked by anything other than mail-in lol

but I do see the benefit in having something more anonymous by design rather than trust

Mail-in is very susceptible to fraud. So is ballot-box and voting-machine shit, though.

I would argue that mail-in and ballot-box are far less vulnerable than most types

I think the blockchain approach is probably the best so far. I've been thinking about this stuff for a while.

if the hardware is well made, then with my limited knowledge I would agree

but electronic backdoors and e-voting I don't like being a thing together, yknow?

I don't know the specific capabilities, but I don't like the idea of people running voting software on say, their home computer on the newest update of windows 10 with tons of proprietary software and games running on hardware with backdoors like the intel ME system or amd PSP and whatever else there is, idk, I just don't know I would trust that unless the device it was running on wasn't like that.

I actually came up with a system that would work about as well as the blockchain approach before BTC's release, but I think blockchains actually make the back end a more elegant system. You just have to make sure people can sign their votes with one key in a keypair they have (and to which no one else has access) so they can verify their own votes on the blockchain to ensure no votes were

although, I probably know less about any of that than some of the people here I am sure lol, I really know not much about any of this.

modified -- the same thing you'd have to do with the system I envisioned back in 2007.

Of course, I'm so shitty at marketing I couldn't get anyone to realize I had a good system for combatting voter fraud while ensuring your votes remain private.

(anybody other than those with whom I was able to speak about it personally, anyway)

But a BTC-ish solution wouldn't be anonymous, would it?

That's why you'd use a Monero-ish solution.

wrinkle_hut[m]: The hardware is only a problem for ensuring everyone who should have a vote does. Of course, they could easily complain about not having gotten their vote.

wrinkle_hut[m]: . . . or are you talking about just not trusting voters to use secure machines?

Secure machines are hard to find...

Yeah.

if you mail everyone a secure machine of their choice to have everything through I guess that could work, but, I bet most people in that situation would just install it on their phones or desktop pcs.

I mean . . . if we're talking about needing really "secure" machines, there's not any (reasonable) way to solve that at all.

start actual production of open hardware

We can do various things to improve security for the voting system relative to what we have now, or anything we've had for the last fifty years.

ship it out to everyone with BSD or linux preinstalled, and make the wallet app only work on those programs.

Estonia tried e-voting with a "hardware" solution, an ID card. Not a big hit since it was possible to derive the private key from the public key.

so non-technical people would be forced to buy one.

wrinkle_hut[m]: The person mailing out the machines would have to be trustworthy, along with the whole supply chain leading up to that person.

boa: That's horrifying.

yes, so, at that point the only solution would be to make sure only a small amount of people would likely to be compromised at any one time. I find the situation for secure voting over anonymous voting might be better, and I bet that mail-in voting could be made far more secure. Honestly, right now the biggest vulnerability is forcing people away from mail in voting and making it impossible to wait in line for target

poor demographics.

The same problem that keeps people from getting good, clean, secure software also keeps the entire electoral system fraught with opportunities for voting fraud.

Voting is dumb, evoting is retarded

wrinkle_hut[m]: How the hell would you "secure" mail-in voting? If you're filling in bubbles on paper and mailing it, it's not secure at all.

<boa "Secure machines are hard to find"> If only someday our computer infrastructure would be more trustworthy and open.

Maybe RISC-V will help a little?

ieatglueinthegul: Voting is mathematically fucked. There has been a lot of research done, and even if we assume people's votes should determine how things work we still won't actually get any kind of optimal outcomes measured in terms of some kind of "public will".

the big thing about this type of thing is to prevent mass attacks.

ieatglueinthegul: . . . so yeah, by the time I figured out ideas for how to decentralize (political) voting on top of keeping it private and verifiable I didn't care any longer about trying to get anyone to buy in.

<boa "Maybe RISC-V will help a little?"> I hope so, I am particularly sad about a lack of open modern gpu. I almost wonder what people even would _do_ for a secure computer nowadays anyways, given the sheer amount of backdoors ect.

boa: I'm certainly hoping for RISC-V improving the open hardware situation. I want computers that are slightly more trustworthy.

<apotheon "ieatglueinthegulag: Voting is ma"> Under what assumptions again?

wrinkle_hut[m]: There are people who reasonably disagree on whether voting is a good way to determine how to run the world. Is that what you're asking?

iirc voting has some different flaws depending on what you are voting for (single seat/single issue, multi seat, ect.) so I was curious what assumption your making

Kim Jong Un doesn't think voting is necessary either.

Oh, pretty much every voting system ever invented has flaws at scale.

I mean, by mathmatical definition there isn't a perfect voting system ESPECIALLY for single seat or whatever type voting

yep

Show me something perfect.

not just non-perfect, but (for anything actually practical to employ) nothing is even mostly-great

Negative outcomes emerge more certainly than positive, measured in terms of various attempts to define a "public will".

I wonder

just a random shower thought

Plurality voting is *especially* bad, of course -- and by far the most common.

approval voting for a large list of random actions in a directish democracy to take, the top x of them get done and the rest don't.

A direct democracy would morph into Socialism extremely quickly.

Yeah, the best solution for voting is multi-seat elections.

Fully-engaged ranked voting can get a lot closer, except nobody would like the process enough to bother.

What definition of Socialism? a lot of people throw that word out with very differing definitions.

Yeah, I don't like the idea of ranked choice voting, its too convuluted

I like approval voting, or maybe dissaproval+approval voting

I don't like single seats at all tho tbh

Cardinal systems, like approval, are even more horrible in terms of "user experience".

I think everything should be a multi-seat election.

how so?

all you need to do is just tick each box you like.

iirc it gets about as good results as other things like ranked choice

What definition of Democracy are you talking about? People always throw out the word Democracy but have varying definitions.

Yeah, but approval voting encourages voting from ignorance more than ranked voting.

more elegant, about as good

The psychology of ranked voting encourages people to learn about the differences between candidates.

Approval voting is more about the "feels".

regardless of that, the differences iirc between score and ranked voting in the end are marginal compared to their difference to FPTP

Yeah, first-past/plurality is just shit.

yeah lol

its

insane thats even allowed

On the other hand, you can actually get people to vote with plurality voting.

whenever there is a new constitution they need to make plurality voting unconstitutional LOL

You'd probably lose shit-tons of voters with approval or ranked and, to the extent approval keeps people involved, many of them would almost vote like it was plurality voting anyway.

yeah, I really don't think it would turn people away tho, especially nobody who cared to vote or had any common sense.

There is one circumstance in which approval voting would work like a fucking charm, though:

. . . when you require perfect consensus.

two candidates, nobody else even trying to run.

(assuming that there's a condition for "no consensus")

iirc its ideal for two candidates competing, of which one is preferred.

That is if you don't have other absurd conditions on top of FPTP, like the US does on a variety of levels lol

No, approval voting for a literal binary choice only fucks the way we end up with those specific options.

yeah

. . . as US political BS clearly demonstrates.

but if the voting could literally only be binary, rather than being forced artificially to be binary

then it would work.

Approval voting with a literal binary choice is the same as plurality voting.

nobody but a bad voting system and corruption forced the 2016 election to be Trump and Hillary. Hillary won the votes but lost the other arbitrary conditions tacked on.

Yes.

Oh, yeah, if literally binary as a condition of nature, that changes things.

* nobody but a bad voting system and corruption forced the 2016 election to be Trump and Hillary. Hillary won the votes but lost the other arbitrary conditions tacked on. Either way there was no way for voting for anyone else, which is a non ideal situation given there was more people who could or where running.

yeah

Then you only have to worry about duplicitous propaganda and stupidity.

but like you said even approval voting would behave the same in that situation too

yeah, its a shame how dumb people can be

Have you guys listened to Freakonomics' take on the current situation in US politics, and voting?

I wonder how much could be solved if there was a giant push for real education the likes of which have never been seen. Too bad that corrupt people very much like having not too much of that type of education.

<apotheon "Then you only have to worry abou"> That's not a bug, it's a feature

boa: Current? No.

ieatglueinthegul: That depends on your outlook.

yknow

wrinkle_hut[m]: When you centralize anything, you attract people who want to be corrupted to positions of power, and the system naturally corrupts itself.

That includes educational standards.

yeah, people always upset me.

or well

dissapoint.

He (Dubner) simply asks if the system really is broken, and argues that it isn't. It's a duopoly where the two parties share the power and they both benefit massively. Therefore there won't be any changes

It's fun to sometimes discuss how fucked voting can get, but I've given up on actually caring about it in the real world, because the bet we can do is get better fidelity in measuring how well the corrupt have led the masses astray.

yeah, its insane

the only thing that most people don't seem gullible to is the argument that daylight savings time is a good idea.

boa: That's almost correct.

And it's funny, because despite literally everyone hating it, large regions have daylights saving time.

boa: The problem is that things *do* change -- but only in ways that benefit the status quo, and slightly enhance the distinctions between "powerful" and "powerless".

(which has more to do with psychology than with birth)

yknow, I wonder if risc-v will ever be used to make a chip much like a threadripper but with a large number of threads per core.

Every four-year Presidential term of office in the US -- even if it's the same president for a second term -- results in the political and legal landscape getting worse.

I would love a fast cpu with lots of threads per core that is designed on an open standard.

Didn't Sun open source their SPARC design way back?

<apotheon "Every four-year Presidential ter"> yknow, given how the supreme court acts, maybe it would be a good thing if everyone had a single term, even if its slightly longer.

Single term people seem to cost more to bribe over lol

even if it wouldn't change too much, it would be funny knowing that corruption would be at an all time expensive and that rich people would be wasting more worthless amounts of pennies lol

I'm highly skeptical that it would get any better.

It might even get worse.

maybe, it depends on whether voter influence or corrpution influence would become more expensive relative to the other

* maybe, it depends on whether voter influence or corrpution influence would become more expensive relative to the other I imagine, also taking into account that their own ideologies could take a bit more hold

If you really want to change the world, find ways to influence people's behavior through innovative economic offerings (whether they're open source/culture creations or business products and services).

Economic offerings succeed when they fill a need valued by people, even if the values they espouse and really think they hold are different.

When they start buying into those things, they change their behavior based on how those things change their lives.

When they change their behavior, they start having to change their beliefs to justify their behavior.

When enough of them change their beliefs, culture changes.

No political system can withstand a pervasive, opposed culture, short of "magical" ability to control people.

And I doubt they have more effective ways than news and internet. Correct me if I am wrong.

Sell something people want to buy.

Seriously.

Monero has more potential to change the political system for the better than a new voting system.

Monero makes it easier for people to buy things they couldn't before.

(assuming sufficient uptake for Monero)

Honestly, I would love to look more into open hardware design and see if I could influence thing more into that (pull a tesla and make them have attractive features), but given that the backdoors on modern devices are probably by tla's, I really don't feel like messing with them lol

yeah, I like the monero project a lot. I think it has a lot of potential to be a good currency in general

Monero also makes it easier for people to exclude the political system from its common benefits than something like a credit card.

Okay, it's quite late here. I need to get to bed.

g'night

Alright, night.

It is a shame that more legal things don't currently accept monero, it would be nice if someone could get anything shipped (somehow anonymously), using crypto lol. But, as a digital replacement for what people think cash is I am sure its nice.

* It is a shame that more legal things don't currently accept monero, it would be nice if someone could get anything shipped (somehow pseudonymously/anonymously) from some equivelant to amazon, using crypto lol. But, as a digital replacement for what people think cash is I am sure its nice.

Hello. I have downloaded and synced the monero-cli. Is there a cli tutorial that walks the user through the commands and their usage, with examples, etc.? I know the "help" command gives a brief description, but something more comprehensive would be nice.

mechanic41turk[m, getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/monero-wallet-cli.html

Thanks, Mochi103 I am seeing this now.

Most of what the wallet can do is way beyond what most people need to use it for.

hey ieatglueinthegulag good to see ya here

I see.

Mochi103: the sending monero part on the page you linked says, "You will need the standard address you want to send to (a long string starting with '4'),"

Does that mean the cli can't send to subaddresses (starting with '8')

?

Also, the same page mentions the user can adjust the RINGSIZE. Isn't the ringsize value standardized to 11 and enforced to be 11?

Looks out of date information.

You can send to any address

ringsize isn't needed... I don't even think it's user configurable anymore

yes... It's all very out of date

thanks Mochi103

btw, how can I see the stats for peers connected to my monero node from cli?

need to do that in the daemon

I want to know how many peers I am connected to, and how many peers are connected to my node.

type status in the daemon

or print_pl

thanks, checking that link now.

thanks, `print_cn` command did it.

btw, I haven't yet opened up my port for the incoming peer connections. However, I started the mining command for my daemon -- just to try and see.

Perchance, if I find a block, will the block I found be relayed, even though I don't have incoming connections to my local node.

?

yes

thanks

wow monerodocs.org is a good resource.

People like this really give Monero a bad reputation :( usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/u…795W/Screenshot_20210328-050622.jpg

leonardus see old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/m3…ts_of_bots_to_spam_other_subreddits

Cant wait till btc line go down and all the retarded maxis commit sudoku

:reply

whoops lol

<ieatglueinthegul "Cant wait till btc line go down "> yeah, in a way its stupid that people keep taking bitcoin seriously as a crypto when there are multiple cryptocurrencies that do literally the exact same thing but better in every way

wrinkle_hut[m]: do you have a macro for that?

the reply thing

I am on a terminal client. I accidently typed the shortcut : instead of /, because I was just using a program that does something similar but with :.

I really enjoy the troll's messages

I should probably configure my things to have more similar shortcuts and commands lol

I find myself scrolling upward through the logs just to find the troll's messages and read them

BTC is pure garbage, it was great work for a proof of concept project but it's time has passed

It's now running on pure hype, it's a classic buble

but... all cryptocurrency runs on hype

look at doge

(Well, also the atrocious state of the market due to the great money printing of 2020)

Yeah, I don't think that bitcoin was a bubble for a good chunk of its history, but now that it is abundantly clear that there is just far superior things as an actual currency it should be abandoned.

We're in a bubble ~ youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk ~

(monero is an exception I agree, but in my opinion that is due to adoption by onion services)

Well, while I think monero is one of the best currencies as an actual currency, I am just saying that the vast majority of cryptocurrencies are better than it as a currency.

I don't think it's an exception, although there def are a lot of scams in the cryptomarket and things bordering on being a scam I'm sure.

* I don't think it's an exception, although there def are a lot of scams in the cryptomarket and things bordering on being a scam I'm sure. (which ironically I heard monero used to be a proper scam before being taken in by the community, at least according to some rumors I heard and haven't cared to verify)

In bitcoins current state, its just a slow expensive non-anonymous relic of the past as a technological proof of concept

It also sucks that its accepted by so many palces

* It also sucks that its accepted by so many places

it would be very much more ideal for a universally accepted cryptocurrency to not have such insane gas fees.

* it would be very much more ideal for a universally accepted cryptocurrency to not have such insane gas fees at scale.

Well, let's evaluate the options then and actually do something about it. What can be done to get Monero accepted by more merchants?

Bytecoin was an outright scam. Monero is a fork of Bytecoin (or Cryptonote ? I forget).

moneromooo: my understanding was that bytecoin was the first implementation of the protocol cryptonote

source that Bytecoin was a scam?

Monero seems to be well accepted in illict trade markets, but, it very often isn't included in the list of legal things for reasons I cannot quite comprehend.

<leonardus "Well, let's evaluate the options"> Honestly, the biggest dissapointment is how little FOSS donations accept it. I am not sure how one would go about solving that issue because I can't even comprehend why the issue is here to begin with at this point.

* Monero is a code fork of Bytecoin

Harder to integrate AFAICT. It's not a bitcoin fork like many. Though these days there's more non bitcoin stuff too, so who knows.

blockchain started from scratch

Thanks. I had a nagging feeling it might have been CN directly. Memory's going :D

if only we could get Snowden to talk about it

My only assumption is humans being humans and there isn't a rational reason it isn't being used more now, but, there would need to be more of a reason for them to use it now.

Yeah, a PR overhaul might be in the needs for humans being humans

charolastra: snowden is a proponent of Zcash for some bizzare reason

LOL

yeah ...

isn't that not private by default?

"bizarre reason" yeah, that's how $$$ are called now?

correct

I don't care about anything that isn't by default

Many (most ?) people seem to have the frame of mind that if they try and keep their privacy, they will be seen as criminals. So this becomes a vicious circle.

propping up anything that you need something technologically skilled to actually have any benefit in using is just scamming people.

Would they go to a toilet with glass walls on the central square of their town?

They don't care about privacy right?

It's just cultural.

if you're realistic, people really don't care about privacy if you look at their internet usage

i mean quite some dudes send dick pics to random girls

I agree with the earlier comment that people justify their actions after the fact

most people can't comprehend they were doing things wrong before, and instead simply explain it away. thats my way of looking at it at least

The trick is to look at what tesla was doing

tesla got popular not because its electric, but because they made a (in some ways) better product and marketed it well.

My daemon is outputting this warning from time to time: `WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received`. What does this mean in layman's terms?

FUK has bееn intеnsеly hostilе to Monеro for ovеr 4 yеars. Making minеrs for Monеro, making a pool for Monеro, making codе that Monеro copiеd, not using bugs to stеal millions from еxchangеs. Wow. Such grеat hostility.

It means your DNS is borked,

Feel bork inc.® youtube.com/watch?v=muLAN-kP5pE

moneromooo: what do you mean by borked?

So, I imagine what Monero needs is a benefit to use for the average person with "nothing to hide"

wrinkle_hut[m]: It already does have the benefit of transaction speed and fees compared to Bitcoin.

It already has basically no gas fees and the transaction speeds aren't the worst.

gas?

broken

another term for transaction speeds

* another term for transaction cost

Are you a mETH head?

moneromooo: why is DNS broken? I am able to connect to the websites on my browser.

it's just the term I have heard used for transaction fees in most crypto communities.

If it means something more specific than I realized, please clarify.

It's an Ethereum term.

wrinkle_hut: gas is specific to ethereum.

So, ethereum is actually two cryptocurrencies ?

Who is FUK?

just call it tx fee

it's really specific for ethereum. cause you need it for the smart contracts to work

No moneromooo, VET is though.

Ah, thanks for the clarifcation. I have heard people use gas outside of that context and thank fucking god its not as much of a term as I thought lol

regardless

That's some dude who could never interact for long without being abusive and is behinfd all the spam AFAIK.

calling it gas is stupid

ikr?

I see

VetinariCoin ?

So, the only thing I can think of is

if more things start accepting monero to begin with

maybe if there was a donation fund set up towards convincing stores to accept monero?

Bribing's never a good idea.

Is there any legal ways of doing that?

Giving people stuff for free makes what you're giving them more worthless. Look at Electroneum.

I wasn't suggesting that.

Well, s/never/seldom/

wrinkle_hut: I think we should focus on internet based businesses taking monero first. Meatspace can wait.

And afaik, most of the internet services (vps, vpn, email, etc.) already take accept xmr.

Perhaps what is needed is a front man

We just need to get Elon to start accepting XMR for Teslas.

bruh

someone who accepts monero in exhcange for paying for meatspace services for you

Teslas and FOSS donation funds.

i've tried to offer xMR as a payment methode for stuff (even with a 20% discount). people then were telling me they can't be bothered and will even stop buying ...

lol

wrinkle_hut: more and more FOSS coders are setting up a monero address for donations.

charolastra: what service do you offer/

products

that's good. I wanted to donate to more than one FOSS group and non of them accepted monero, so I simply didn't donate.

you mean stuff you are willing to talk about or...?

no :p

<charolastra "i've tried to offer xMR as a pay"> thats very stupid lol

wrinkle_hut: we are still early. stack those piconeros.

I was considering starting a monero only service so I was curious

Yknow

I had a dream the other night.

here we go...

Mochi103: I think Elon would hurt the public image of Monero.

He thinks Dogecoin is valuable, or at least pushes it as such.

leonardus, it was just a joke

If he starts pushing Monero, people might start questioning that too

Mochi103: maybe, but people didn't take it as such.

do people question dogecoin because elon pushes it?

Where someone made a cryptocurrency that was fast and nearly free like monero or even nano, but somehow was able to swap with every other crypto to be a sort of truly decentralized and anonymous exchange.

everything elon touches turns to gold

PapuaHardyNet: what I'm saying is people question Elon because he pushes Dogecoin

A coin that was literally created to be effectively valueless

man Elon is antifragile

charolastra: he still gotta deliver on that full self driving tho

You can't control who supports you and is vocal about it.

Elon is elon lol

he's surely making money out of his shilling

It's fine, we've got McAfee on our side

snorts

LOL, really?

I especially love his reaction to the bitcoin privacy features comment around the 8th minute

hilarious 😂

Never listened to McAfee talk before

I have bitcoin on coinbase that I want to swap for XMR... I know I can buy on kraken but I don't want to open another account with a KYC exchange...

I have an empty electrum bitcoin wallet on my pc. So, here's what I'm thinking... Send all coinbase BTC to my PC's wallet. Use PC wallet to buy XMR. Sound like a plan? or am I an idiot if I do this?

do you have somebody in mind to trade with?

or are you going to trade on bisq?

otherwise i don't understand your 'plan'

No I was planning to buy XMR from an exchange. Probably tradeogre

I guess I should just ask this: how to I convert the BTC from my coinbase account into XMR?

A cheaper solution would be to convert your btc to ltc on coinbase, and then look for a website offerint ltc-xmr swaps

you want to exchange to XMR with electrum?

Works the same way, but much cheaper fees

(Plus there's also an electrum-ltc wallet)

tradeogre now supports USDT

(not that I care much for Tether... just saying)

So sell your btc for usdt and transfer the usdt to Tradeogre... buy XMR with USDT

I can't convert to USDT on coinbase. Why should I convert to something like LTC before buying XMR? Can't I give tradeogre my coinbase wallet address and just buy XMR directly with BTC?

Sorry I'm cluless on this stuff. When I searched online I found services to swap BTC > XMR but that seemed unnecessary

The real state of Crypto Adoption here...

You have to move your own currency around maquinisto.

Mochi103, I understand. Just looking for advice on how to get this done at the lowest cost

which exchanges sell xmr for bnb?

maquinisto, just look at which coins coinbase/tradeogre support... buy the coin you choose on coibase and transfer it to tradeogre

want to buy some xmr :)

uhhh... questi... maybe Binance?

Mochi103 your logic is undeniable :D

Are these sell signals?

thank you Mochi103

I figured it was that simple. Just wanted to make sure.

apart binance?

:)

or ok how to buy xmr then

Litebit supports BNB, but not XMR.

So many people con't even use a search engine... How can we ever expect they'll be able to use cryptocurrencies?

<TrooperZ> cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/6204…1669/825739531796873256/3b1c56f.jpg

Mochi103, it's not that people can't use search engines. There's an excess of information and its hard to know who to trust. Especially now that more people are jumping in, others are looking to profit from ignorance.

This channel is run by and for people interested in supporting or using monero. So I tend to trust advice I get here more than some exchange or blog, even though you are all strangers to me.

Very true.

.isittrue

maquinisto: That's a reasonable approach, as long as you keep in mind that there's always the possibility of someone trolling you.

New video by a big YouTuber about Monero:

I find it a bit frustrating that local-whatever sites for exchanging cryptocurrency are often anti-Tor and, in addition, sometimes prone to blocking the US -- and, on top of that, are largely useless for basically anything in the US that isn't adjacent to a coastal area.

At least, that's my impression so far.

If only one of you gave Papa ChooChoo some TLC when I wrote a faster miner, instead of ignoring him, things could have happened differently np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5lsfgt/_/dbz0jnp

On top of everything else, roadtripping (which I enjoy) doesn't seem like the greatest idea right now, given the state of the world. (Flying is an even worse idea.)

Thus, changing the definition of "local" for local-cryptocurrency sites wouldn't help much.

If I want to build a branch other than master . . . how the hell do I do that? Even `git pull --all` won't give me anything but master.

git co <branchname>

apotheon: git checkout origin/release-v0.17

or u might not have that alias yea `git checkout`

$ git checkout release-0.17

error: pathspec 'release-0.17' did not match any file(s) known to git

same with "origin/" included, of course

Copy/paste.

wtf

wut

Oh, shit, I left out the v.

damn it

Thanks for helping me get past the dumbitude.

heheh

I'm just a failure at monero, apparently.

or git maybe

louipc: It reports that I'm on branch release-v0.17 . . .

looks like monero is not for bsd users

. . . so I think I got the git part right.

unless you install gnu compiler

can some OP on -markets give me voice or smth, please?

I have gcc.

my messagens dont go through

apotheon: ok but the monero configuration/makefiles dont seem to care unless you did something else wrong

ping one such person, or it's likely they won't see the request.

pong

louipc: thanks, that's helpful

im not sure i never looked into monero build system nor tried to build on bsd

I guess I give up again.

search the bug tracker, then file an issue maybe

$ echo $CC

/usr/bin/gcc

gas --version, as --version

netrik182: I just asked for you in -markets

Last I checked, there's no way for someone who doesn't have commit access to add an issue.

(becase of spamming)

netrik182: you are good to go \o/

PurpleBerries thanks

meow

(re: as --version)

hmm

Doesn't seem to be our check. Probably cmake's.

"GNU assembler" vs "(GNU assembler)"

Does it really want GNU as ?

It's also weird that the errors are implying Clang when I'm explicitly setting CC to gcc and explicitly using gmake.

I guess I should first ask... Do you have a problem ?

I kinda assumed you did, but there's no hard evidence :)

seems like a problem to me:

Yes, but not very useful a log. The actual error is earlier.

For some reason I thought I had already shared this part, but it looks like I didn't. Sorry.

I fail at IRC.

I blame me for these issues.

git submodule sync

Then update again.

Ah, thanks.

I haven't used git with submodules since 2016, as far as I recall.

gmake: *** No rule to make target 'release-static'. Stop.

I'm confused.

I've got xmrig and monero-cli set up on a FreeBSD server. I'm trying to use monero-wallet-cli, but it refreshes very, very slowly. Any idea why it might be terribly slow?

PaddyMac, what do you have monero-wallet-cli connected to?

I'm not sure what you mean, unless you mean the monerod server that comes with monero-cli.

yeah, just making sure your using a local node

PaddyMac, are you using SSD or HDD?

The server has two 1TB SAS hard drives in a ZFS mirror.

yeah. if its spinning metal, its generally gonna be slow

How long would be typical?

during the primary sync / refresh

so you have a synchronized daemon?

I'm not sure what you mean by synchronized daemon.

the monerod server

Yes.

I don't know how long a wallet refresh on HDD would take. Usually you can make it go much faster by using a sensible restore height

if you know the date you created the wallet, you can get the wallet software to only scan the blocks since that date

so if you have an old wallet, its still gonna take a while

I created it about a year ago. But the daemon runs constantly.

It just finished. I guess it took close to an hour.

yeah, sounds about right. 1 year of scanning

on my laptop it takes less than 20 minutes to scan from height 0

OK. If that's typical, then I won't worry about it.

might also be ssd / hdd related

freebsd might also not use the ASM scanning optimizations

I set up xmrig and monero-cli about a year ago. I figured I'd see what I've mined in the past year. But the balance is 0. I find it hard to believe that I haven't mined anything in a year.

Especially since I'm in a mining pool.

If you're in a mining pool, check the mining pool website. You either have to reach the minimum for auto payout or manually do a payout

I think I'm going to try installing monero on a different OpenBSD system, in case there's something funky in config that's breaking my attempts to build.

This is frustrating.

shit on a stick

apotheon: can you just `gmake` without any of those other options or targets? that's what i used and it worked for me on 6.8

unless you require the static build for some reason, of course

I'm just trying to follow directions at this point.

I'll give it a shot with nothing extra, I guess.

yeah, i know you got that from the README. lucky for me, i neglected to read the README before building, and it built the default target successfully :)

amusing

i still needed that ARCH=default tweak, and also `ulimit -d 3000000000` or whatever

I don't seem to be running into ulimit issues (probably because I changed the limits on this machine so it won't crap out when opening something like Chrome or Firefox).

yeah that would probably do it. the default 1.5GB definitely caused some file to consistently fail, core_rpc_server.cpp IIRC

still getting the same errors

It really doesn't like something about the miniupnpc situation.

hm, really. maybe something changed recently. let me try pulling and rebuilding

I wonder whether this is relevant somehow:

Performing Test HAVE_C11 - Failed

Well, it seems to tell you what's wrong. Remove those two flags.

Which two flags?

The ones it tells you about -_-

Where am I supposed to remove them?

I didn't type those things.

git grep

Somewhere in CMakeLists.txt most likely.

miniupnpc's CMakeLists, probably.

Good point, git grep in external/miniupnp, or it won't find them.

one thing i miss about bitcoin.... ./configure --without-miniupnpc :P

Someone needs to tweak that to detect openbsd and/or flags.

in two different files, actually

holy crap

a bunch more complaints about command line options

six more

I give up again.

6 is like 5 more than 1

seems that my miniupnpc builds without issues.

-- The C compiler identification is Clang 10.0.1

^ do you get the same? perhaps you have something else like gcc installed?

I do have gcc installed -- just for the sake of building cryptocurrency software.

Otherwise, I avoid it.

heh heh

I'd avoid it for that, too, if I thought I could get away with it.

time to port to other compilers huh

I fucking hate gcc errors/warnings.

well, that's one difference between your failing build and my successful one

le sigh

you could try rm -rf build && CC=cc CXX=c++ gmake

hopefully that would prevent it from choosing gcc, not 100% sure though

though, it turns out i also have gcc installed, but cmake doesn't pick it by default, i wonder why it did for you

you did install the comp set in the OpenBSD installer, i hope?

`cc -v` says clang, yes?

yes, cc -v says Clang

I installed all sets.

well another clean build with no options just succeeded for me on commit fd869a7b6

i don't know what DEVELOPER_LOCAL_TOOLS=1 does but maybe that's what screwed you up

did you try `rm -rf build && gmake` yet?

hm, seems that should only affect boost

Does this all look good so far?

miniupnpc looks like the same version i have, 4c700e09526a7d546394e85628c57e9490feefa0 external/miniupnp (miniupnpc_2_1-17-g4c700e0)

you'll want this commit monero-project/monero #7631 but that's unrelated to this

`git fetch origin pull/7631/head && git merge --ff-only FETCH_HEAD`

I think I'm just going to have to try it on a different computer and see what happens.

that really oughtg not to be necessary, worst case scenario just force it to use cc instead of gcc

i bet your `fgrep C_COMPILER: build/OpenBSD/release-v0.17/release/CMakeCache.txt` says gcc, right?

yep

you can probably just change that line to /usr/bin/cc, along with CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER to /usr/bin/c++ and it should work

though i guess `rm -rf build && CC=cc CXX=c++ gmake` would probably be cleaner in case other choices depend on that one

It's getting a lot further this time, but it does throw some warnings.

(looks like for loop condition stuff)

inadvertent copies and such? those are safe to ignore

seems like it

I pretty much haven't touched C++ in more than a decade, so . . . yeah. It's all kinda just mud to me at this point.

they might be fixed in master already

"When is Monero going to be rewritten in (Rust|Zig|Whatever)?"

I should have included Go.

ew

Are there any particular options to which you say "ew", or is it just all of them?

Go in particular

Go is great

i don't think Rust would be a good choice for Monero seeing as how it basically only supports two platforms

three i guess, if you include Windows

I'm pretty "ew" about C++, personally. My main issue with Go has always been the annoying way it has its own ideas about how one is supposed to set up a dev environment, which seems to assume it's the only programming language in the world, and punishes the developer for not following that approach.

Go modules are pretty good now

Yeah, portability is kinda important.

Gopath was kinda retarded

Kinda?

somewhat relevant to the current context, OpenBSD itself is "Tier 3" for rust support, which basically means "good luck"

Tier 3 platforms are those which the Rust codebase has support for, but which are not built or tested automatically, and may not work. Official builds are not available.

I don't remember exactly what happened the last time I tried playing with Go, but it was less than two years ago, and it annoyed the shit out of me trying to get it set up, so I moved on and wrote something in C instead.

I like being able to use vanity URLs for modules. Makes it easy to switch which repo you use

. . . though I didn't have to set GOPATH, so that was nice.

go is probably my least favorite language ever, i'd rather be stuck with C++98

Go modules make everything pretty easy. I like being able to vendor dependencies in pretty easily

or even java *shudder*

shit, the build bombed out again

differently, now

progress. what's the error?

Oh, shit, OOM.

(I had to read stuff for a bit to find that.)

ulimit -d 3145728

Okay, the limits aren't high enough here.

the hazards of compiling C++

indeed

Where would I set that more permanently? Would it be /etc/login.conf? I don't remember.

me neither, i only set them that high to build monero so i just do it interactively

probably login.conf, yeah

s/them/it/

Shit. I'm not sure what setting to change.

-d

oh, in the file

It doesn't help that ulimit doesn't have a manpage.

that's because it's a shell builtin. it's documented in the ksh manpage

Oh, found that.

also `ulimit -a` will print the symbolic names

kilobytes, okay

I was trying to remember the -d unit.

I suspect that's equivalent to "datasize-max".

the max is already infinity by default, that's why a regular user can change it with ulimit -d

you want to change the cur

but yeah, datasize

looks like unlike the shell, login.conf lets you specify a more reasonable unit with e.g. the M suffix

ah, right, current

go is garbage like anything else coming from google-NSA

apotheon: so like, staff:datasize-cur=3G:... should work

Yeah, that's what I did.

The login.conf stuff is gradually coming back to me.

. . . as much as I ever understood it, anyway.

so with that change i am really looking forward to hearing that your build succeeded :)

(I have 48GB RAM in this thing, so I should be fine throwing a few gigs at this.)

keep in mind that's per-process, if you run e.g. gmake -j4, it will be more.

right

I doubt I'm going to be doing any kind of -j10, though.

heh, yeah. especially given that OpenBSD disables HT by default

indeed

I prefer it that way.

I'm just watching the reverse-waterfall of scrolling compiler output.

Oh, shit.

It failed much more quickly this time.

?

I don't understand.

yeah, that's the error i've warned you about like nine times now :P

Did I forget a step?

Which step did I forget this time?

1. to avoid restarting the bulid from scratch, just do this

cmake -DARCH=default build/OpenBSD/release-v0.17/release/

2. to avoid this error altogether on future clean builds, 16:37 < ndorf> `git fetch origin pull/7631/head && git merge --ff-only FETCH_HEAD`

Oh, shit, I forgot that step this time.

(I remembered it the previous time.)

:)

Thanks.

My poor brain, down the drain.

the good news is if you keep that build directory around, these settings should be remembered even after you update, as long as you stay on the same branch

I can tell you why you can't stop the 'spam'. You are thinking in cult doctrine. If it was real spam, and I was selling Viagra for example - you could easily ban keywords and urls. Instead, stop being a sheep, think like a cult leader. Recoginse that this 'spam' is just some bullshit that you tell to the sheep.

When you do that, solution will present itself. Observe. 'spam' -> 'FUK talks bad things about Monero on our IRC' (Don't say that out loud obviously, that will get you excommunicated) Solution? Get off-the-shelf sentiment analyser, detect anyone who 'talks bad things about Monero' and ban them.

"off-the-shelf sentiment analyzer"

I want one of those.

It's right up there with wanting an off-the-shelf cache invalidation solution.

I had a boss once who, without realizing it, gave me the task of solving the cache invalidation problem.